Kelly Harris on Locations, Logistics, and Powering Hollywood From the Ground Up
Guest: Kelly Harris
Titles: Supervising Location Manager; Locations & Production Logistics Leader
Episode Theme: Locations aren’t just “where you shoot”—they’re how production actually happens. Kelly breaks down the creative + logistical power of the locations department, from scouting to permits to managing entire neighborhoods.
Why this matters right now: With tighter budgets, shorter seasons, and new formats like verticals, productions need smarter location strategy more than ever—and Black women need visibility in the roles that quietly run the industry.
Kelly Harris is the kind of industry pro who makes the impossible look effortless because she’s doing the work nobody sees. From getting her start in Cincinnati on Rage in Harlem to building a career in Los Angeles, Kelly shows how relationships, preparation, and leadership make locations the backbone of production. This is a masterclass in how the location department touches every department.
What we talk about
Relationships as Currency: The Call That Changed Her Career (00:04:29)
A day in the life of a location manager: scouting, strategy, and service (00:09:41)
Let’s Talk Tech: “Area of Use” and why it’s everything (00:16:37)
Let’s Talk Finance: FilmLA, permits, union wages, and location budgets (00:19:34)
Verticals + the future: why this format could be a win for locations (00:33:58)
Why you’ll want to listen
A crystal-clear breakdown of what locations actually does (00:09:41)
Real talk about FilmLA fees and what they do and don’t control (00:20:13)
Practical career money: union wage ballparks + negotiation mindset (00:23:59)
Future-proofing: how vertical storytelling changes production strategy (00:33:58)
The leadership gem: protect your health, reputation, time, and finances (00:42:18)
About the guest
Kelly Harris is a Supervising Location Manager whose career spans film and television across major studios and networks. Known for her strategic scouting, production diplomacy, and deep logistical expertise, she’s helped productions secure and manage complex locations from neighborhoods and private properties to major institutions while supporting every department on set.
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Watch the full episode on YouTube @TruJuLoMedia.
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Introduction
Fanshen Cox [00:00:00]: Welcome back to season 7 of the Sista Brunch Podcast. We're the podcast all about Black women and Black gender-expansive people who are thriving in entertainment and media and theater and, and all the things. Um, and we love especially introducing you to guests who do jobs that you may not have ever heard of. And so Shawn’s gonna tell us a little bit about that. And speaking of Shawn, look who's here with me. Sean Pipkin West, also known as Pip, who you can go back to, I think it's maybe season 1 or 2 and listen to Shawn’s early episodes. And now Shawn is directing, continuing to produce, continuing to work on all the things. So welcome back, Shawn.
Shawn Pipkin [00:00:44]: Thank you. I'm so happy to be back and, uh, so blessed that you got season 7. Lucky season 7.
Fanshen Cox [00:00:51]: I know, yes, this is a good one.
Meet the Guest: Kelly Harris
Shawn Pipkin [00:00:53]: Very, very integral, pivotal season. And, uh, thank you for asking me back. I miss you guys. But the It's good reasons why I haven't been here regularly because I am busy working, which I'm so grateful and thankful to be here, uh, working on a show, uh, Untitled Dan Fogelman Football Show right now. It will be, uh, airing in 2027 as of right now. So just remember this, it's in the future, way in the future. But, um, thank you. But now let's talk about our guest. She is someone who You may not like, what does she do? What? But believe me, if she did not do her job, we wouldn't really have a film, television industry at all. Please welcome the incredible, incredible Kelly Harris!
Kelly Harris [00:01:42]: Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you.
Fanshen Cox [00:01:46]: We are so glad to have you here. I always like to, if I can, if there's a connection with a guest, I love to share how I learned about you. So I was at the COLA Awards, which are the California On Location Awards. We have awards for location managers across the state, and they were honoring a man named Ed Duffy. And so they were doing the video package, and this amazing badass Black woman comes on because I remember sitting there looking in the audience and thinking like, I wonder if there are any Black women that do this, right? Because we don't see— And there this woman came on, powerful and clearly, you know, beloved by that community itself. And, uh, and so I approached you right afterwards and asked you to be on Sista Brunch, and you said yes. So we're so glad. Yes, Kelly, we want to hear your story, um, key moments in your life, starting with where you were born and how you ended up coming here, if you came here, or maybe you were born here, but How did you end up doing this particular role in the industry?
Kelly Harris [00:02:50]: So I am originally from Cincinnati, Ohio.
Fanshen Cox [00:02:53]: Okay.
Shawn Pipkin [00:02:53]: Go Bengals.
Kelly Harris [00:02:54]: Go Bengals.
Kelly Harris [00:02:57]: Well not any more. Maybe next year. Born and raised in Cincinnati. I attended performing arts schools, junior high, high school. I went to the University of Cincinnati College Conservatory of Music, and I studied broadcasting and film production there. Okay. Believe it or not, we had during that time a period of time where a lot of films came to town. John Sayles and folks like that. So we had like, you know, Matewan, City of Hope, and then a little film called Rage in Harlem came to town.
Fanshen Cox [00:03:30]: Oh. They filmed it there?
“Rage in Harlem” + Bill Duke’s Crew Push
Kelly Harris [00:03:31]: Rage in Harlem was filmed in Cincinnati, Ohio.
Fanshen Cox [00:03:36]: I did not know that.
Shawn Pipkin [00:03:39]: Wow.
Fanshen Cox [00:03:39]: Yes.
Kelly Harris [00:03:39]: And Bill Duke was the director on that project. And when he came to Ohio, he specifically told the troops. You know, when you hire local people, I want to see African American people on the crew.
Fanshen Cox [00:03:51]: Bill Duke, shout out, gratitude to Bill Duke, who is always making sure.
Shawn Pipkin [00:03:56]: And "Rage in Harlem," if you have not seen this film, you need to go rent it, download it, whatever. Watch this film.
Kelly Harris [00:04:05]: And it's not "Harlem Nights."
Fanshen Cox [00:04:07]: No. That's right. No.
Shawn Pipkin [00:04:10]: It's a very different film. Very different film.
Kelly Harris [00:04:11]: So we had the amazing Forest Whitaker. Robin Givens. Gregory Hines. Just all— just amazing talents that were in this particular film. And that's where I was able to cut my teeth in the feature world.
Fanshen Cox [00:04:28]: What role did you do on that film?
Kelly Harris [00:04:29]: I was in locations. And this kind of brings me to one of the things about all of our jobs in the industry. It's about relationships.
Shawn Pipkin [00:04:36]: Yes.
Kelly Harris [00:04:37]: And a young man that I went to college with remembered me and called me up and said, hey, there's a project coming to town. Are you interested in working? And it was right in between the time I had started going back to school to get my MBA. And I'm like, I have some time off, sure, you know. And I didn't remember who this guy was. But he was going to be at the meeting when I was going to interview with the location manager. And then, of course, when I walked in the lobby of the place, I recognized the guy. So you never know. And I bring this up because you never know who's watching you.
Fanshen Cox [00:05:10]: Yes. Yes.
Kelly Harris [00:05:11]: And this was someone that I wasn't really friends with. But he remembered me.
Shawn Pipkin [00:05:17]: You made an impact.
Fanshen Cox [00:05:18]: Yes.
Kelly Harris [00:05:18]: I made an impact. Yeah. So I met the location manager. She was out of New York. And she really wasn't too keen on the idea of bringing me on because she, you know, had her people and everything. And she said to me, you know, like, I'm hiring you because you're Black and the director wants to have Black people on the crew.
Fanshen Cox [00:05:40]: And because I'm good. And you'll see that I'm about to run circles around you. You probably could just— say that at that point.
Kelly Harris [00:05:47]: But basically, what I was— it was early in my career. And basically what I said to her is, it's my responsibility to prove to you that you didn't make a mistake.
Fanshen Cox [00:05:55]: There you go. Yep.
Kelly Harris [00:05:57]: And to this day, I have a great friendship with that location manager. She's New York-based. She's a producer these days. And then, you know, you meet people and I'm, you know, Bill Duke's assistant made a comment to me at one point, she goes, I winter in LA. Now, for somebody in Cincinnati, I didn't know what that meant, but I sure the heck wanted to do it. And I caught a train with my garment bag and a suitcase. And I came out here. In the meantime, there were a couple of other films that I worked on back in Cincinnati. And one was like a Hallmark-type movie. And Doris Roberts and Olivia Newton-John were in it. It was called A Mom for Christmas.
Shawn Pipkin [00:06:36]: Sandy from Grease? Yes. Oh my goodness.
The Leap to LA: First Industry Access
Kelly Harris [00:06:40]: People always tell you, if you come to town, give me a call. So, I end up down at Union Station. The person I was supposed to go hang out with, stay with, they were at work. So, I called this location manager and, you know, I said, "Hey, Liz, it's Kelly Harris." And she goes like, "Great, how you doing?" I said, "Great, I'm here." And she goes, "Here where?" I said, "Someplace called Union Station." So, at that time it was 1990.
Shawn Pipkin [00:07:04]: I'm sorry, you took a train from Cincinnati to LA back then?
Fanshen Cox [00:07:09]: Just move. You were like- How many days was that?
Kelly Harris [00:07:09]: I thought I wanted to see the country. There was— It was 3 days and there was nothing to see.
Fanshen Cox [00:07:18]: Oh, so that's not the route you would want to go from. The Surfliner is beautiful, by the way. We will say that's the route you want to go, but not the Cincinnati to— no, no.
Shawn Pipkin [00:07:30]: Joe Biden would be proud.
Fanshen Cox [00:07:33]: But exactly.
Kelly Harris [00:07:33]: So, you know, I took the train out and she picked me up downtown. And she goes, find somebody in a uniform. Don't go outside. Stay there. I'll pick you up. And she pulls up, picks me up. And she was actually— her name was Liz Matthews. And she was actually wrapping up a production and about to begin another one. And she goes, I'll pick you up tomorrow. We'll hang out. You know, you can see what I do here in LA in terms of locations. And I spent the day with her. And I got exposure to like a location service, which we didn't have location services. For those of us that don't know what a location service is, it's a company that represents different properties that are used in film, television, still shoots, and even events. So I was able to see that operation and how they were set up. So that was great, you know, because we didn't have that back home. I'm your location service. And-
Fanshen Cox [00:08:26]: Right, right. You know, it's— you didn't even at that time, there was no— I mean, I'm thinking probably like Google comes in handy for locations now, but at that time, what was it like? Kind of –Yeah, right. Like paper maps.
Kelly Harris [00:08:39]: Yellow Pages. Once again, we go back to relationships, you know, and, and then you just become familiar with areas. And because I grew up in Cincinnati, I knew, you know, downtown Cincinnati really well. And I knew that some of those buildings down there would look like the buildings that were in Harlem.
Fanshen Cox [00:08:55]: Yes.
Kelly Harris [00:08:56]: You know, and then we had one residential street called Dayton Street that really would look like a residential street in Harlem. So one of the last ones that hadn't been torn down or gentrified. So we did a lot of filming there. And then, you know, did things like close down Main Street in downtown Cincinnati every night for 2 weeks. Gunfire, all types of stuff, car chases. And then by like 7 in the morning, we'd open it up and traffic would go in and out of downtown Cincinnati.
Day in the Life: What a Location Manager Actually Does 9:25
Fanshen Cox [00:09:24]: You know what, since you said that, and because your role is something we've never had on the podcast, which again was just— It was so beautiful to have this representation in this role. Can you take us through a day in the life of a location manager so that our folks know what it is?
Kelly Harris [00:09:41]: Absolutely.
Shawn Pipkin [00:09:42]: Well, first, the prep. First thing, when you're hired, what is the first thing you would do on a film or a TV show?
Kelly Harris [00:09:47]: OK. Once they have made the right decision in terms of bringing me on. To a project—
Fanshen Cox [00:09:51]: That's right.
Kelly Harris [00:09:52]: Yes.
Shawn Pipkin[00:09:52]: Absolutely.
Fanshen Cox [00:09:52]: Yes.
Kelly Harris [00:09:56]: It all begins with, believe it or not, like most people would say the script, I'll say the budget. OK. The studio has a budget in mind for the entire project when they start out. And then they will allot a certain amount of money to each department. Now, I look at that as just one big pot because there's some days where my budget might help out another department and vice versa, depending on what we're doing. So it starts with the budget. Then I get the script. In episodic television, if we're at a studio lot, and we have locations that are built on a stage, anything that's in that script that's not on stage, my department has the task of finding those locations. So my position can be a very creative position. It's also a department of service, but we'll get into that a little bit later. So what I do is try to figure out different options that could work 4 different sets that are in that script. So we will go out and we will scout, OK? And I have a team of scouts. I usually have— I look at it as we're a tree. I'm the trunk. My key assistant location managers are my limbs. And the ALMs, which are assistant location managers, they're the leaves. They're the people that help. Maintain and provide for the crew on any given day when we're filming.
Shawn Pipkin [00:11:24]: What a great analogy. What a great analogy.
Fanshen Cox [00:11:26]: I love that. I love it.
Kelly Harris [00:11:27]: So we'll go out, we'll scout locations. I like to cold scout, which that means I'm not going to a location service. Sometimes in episodic, you do use services because just lack of time.
Shawn Pipkin [00:11:40]: Yes.
Kelly Harris [00:11:41]: Because you can scout— Then the scout.
Fanshen Cox [00:11:42]: Is that one, or is there a real scout?
Shawn Pipkin [00:11:45]: Y Location scout. It starts with location and then a producer scout.
Fanshen Cox [00:11:49]: But in the services— Yeah, the services. Services.
Kelly Harris [00:11:51]: Okay, there's like cast locations, Universal Hollywood locations, and the location service. I actually worked for one for probably about 3 or 4 years when I first moved out here, um, Location Enterprises. And that was one of the— I want to say the first or second that was created. And that one was created by a woman, Beverly Metzler, who was kind of a society person. Her husband was a producer, um, at Disney, and then he was also the business manager for the Academy Awards for like 45 years. So He came home one day, and he's like, you know, we're filming at our friends' houses and doing all that. He goes, why don't you kind of represent these places and then, you know, use the money and dedicate— you know, give it to some of your favorite charities? So that company started out as a company that donated the proceeds to charity.
Fanshen Cox [00:12:44]: Amazing.
Kelly Harris [00:12:45]: But then Beverly's like, what am I doing here?
Fanshen Cox [00:12:48]: Yeah, OK, OK. Woman came in and said I could make some money off of this. Yes.
Kelly Harris [00:12:54]: Charities went away completely. But, you know, she saw it as a real profit-making opportunity for her.
Fanshen Cox [00:13:00]: Okay.
Kelly Harris [00:13:00]: So location services, for instance, I could see a beautiful colonial house and I might go inside and it— the inside doesn't match the exterior. So with a service, it saves time because I can go to a website. When I started, you would check out photographs from the service in notebooks or folders and you're able to see what the interior looks like. OK. You always, though, before you go on a director scout— so you have your options. I go scout them. Then I would come back and show them to my director, Pip, the production designer, my first AD, and my producer. And then based on the storyline, and also with the first AD, which is another position— like, Pip's such a rock star at it.
Fanshen Cox [00:13:48]: Yes. When she's— I know that's the hard part. People don't want to lose Pip as a first AD. But Pip is a director, right?
Kelly Harris [00:13:54]: So I'm like, yes. I like that she's better.
Fanshen Cox [00:13:55]: She's the director in this one.
Kelly Harris [00:13:57]: Yeah. It's like having someone like Pip as a director, that's like the best director because she understands— You guys hear that, Disney? Fox?
Fanshen Cox [00:14:06]: Everybody?
Shawn Pipkin [00:14:07]: Netflix? OK, sorry. Yeah, because— Paramount.
Kelly Harris [00:14:09]: Pip understands what every department needs.
Fanshen Cox [00:14:11]: Right.
Kelly Harris [00:14:12]: OK? Yes. And you know, she's about the creative vision and what the talent needs, but she also understands the logistics of the whole thing.
Shawn Pipkin [00:14:20]: And the production of it all. Yes.
Kelly Harris [00:14:21]: And the production. So you know, we're looking at a schedule. So I might have the anchor location, say, is this colonial house. And then there might be some other things written in there, like a drugstore or a park. And just say at that colonial house, if we're going to only film there for a couple hours or, you know, half a day, and the same talent is working in some other scenes, the first AD will say, well, let's try to find these other things within walking distance, pushing, or like a mile. Because we— it's all about time. It's all about time. And in the wintertime, our days are shorter.
Fanshen Cox [00:14:58]: Yes. Right.
Kelly Harris [00:14:59]: So the one thing that has really driven me kind of crazy over the years is— and it's just the luck of the draw— I always— the shows that I've done that have a lot of night work always film in the summertime. And then most of the shows that have a lot of day work, it's like, oh, it'll start filming in January. So you're constantly— racing the clock. So those are things that I'm concerned about too.
Fanshen Cox [00:15:28]: Amazing. Thank you for that breakdown. Yeah.
Kelly Harris [00:15:31]: So it's, it's, it's interesting. So once we pick a location, my department is tasked with everything else you see and do when you go on location. And people don't think about it. Most of the crew, they just show up and everything's there.
Fanshen Cox [00:15:43]: Right.
Kelly Harris [00:15:44]: So the maps to get to work. I'm doing the contracts for the use of the location, the supporting locations, whether that's for catering, or staging. Sometimes you have some neighbors you have to pay, you buy their driveways, that type of thing. Tents, restrooms, pop-ups. If we're filming in somebody's pool, is that pool heated, or do I have to get special effects to come in and heat? What do my grips and electricians need? You know, I pull the film permits. I work with the production office to get the proper insurance. And so, you know, and this will kind of, kind of bleeds over to the tech talk because for my area of use, because that is everything that we touch, control, and impact.
Let’s Talk Tech: “Area of Use”
Fanshen Cox [00:16:37]: Okay. Our Let's Talk Tech for this episode is “area of use.”
Kelly Harris [00:16:41]: Area of use.
Fanshen Cox [00:16:44]: So because I would— it just Just dawned on me, right? I think of location manager, "Oh, the location where you're gonna shoot." But you have to think of all of the other aspects. It's not just what the audience is eventually gonna see. Because as you said, you've gotta know about the— Did you call it supplemental areas? Right?
Shawn Pipkin [00:17:02]: Like the neighborhood. If you're shooting in a residential area, right? And it's not just about what the camera sees. Crew park, base camp, which is where the actors get ready. Like, it's so much.
Kelly Harris [00:17:15]: It's everything.
Fanshen Cox [00:17:16]: So much.
Kelly Harris [00:17:17]: The beauty of the location department is that we interact with every department.
Shawn Pipkin [00:17:24]: Every department.
Kelly Harris [00:17:25]: And that's the thing I love about my job, you know, and I try to tell the people that work with me. And that's the thing. I don't necessarily say that people work for me. I want people who work with me.
Fanshen Cox [00:17:35]: Because you're a tree. It's the tree.
Kelly Harris [00:17:38]: It's the tree.
Fanshen Cox [00:17:38]: All working together.
Kelly Harris [00:17:39]: And you have to figure out in any— as a department head, you have to figure out people's strengths. And their weaknesses and use them effectively. You also have to know when people aren't right for your department too, and how to handle that, you know? And then locations isn't for everybody, right? It was great for me because it put me— I like logistics, I like dealing with finance, I love talking to people, and I have a creative streak. So there's times where there might be something written in a script And I might have an idea about a location that's like, let me just slide this in. This might be a little different concept, but I think it works really well. And several times they've picked locations or changed a particular set in a script based on something I've suggested.
Fanshen Cox [00:18:26]: Did you get any director credit when you did?
Kelly Harris [00:18:28]: No, no, no, no.
Fanshen Cox [00:18:30]: I'm not going to take away from the director, but they were lucky that you, that you gave them those tidbits. Amazing.
Kelly Harris [00:18:37]: So you're a part of all of that.
Fanshen Cox [00:18:38]: I love it.
Join Us on Patreon
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Kelly Harris [00:19:14]: Hi, I'm Kelly Harris, and you're watching Sista Brunch Podcast.
Let’s Talk Finance: Permits, FilmLA, Union Wages, Budgets
Shawn Pipkin [00:19:19]: I love the area of use. That area of use, that's a new term.
Kelly Harris [00:19:23]: Yes.
Shawn Pipkin [00:19:24]: I love this. So now we talked about how you got started, we talked a little bit— should we talk about financials?
Fanshen Cox [00:19:31]: Yeah, let's talk about financials.
Shawn Pipkin [00:19:34]: So financials, yes, financials. If you want to give like basic average salaries of someone in your position or ALM or location manager scouts, you can do that or not. Or if you want to talk about the price of getting certain locations like permits, I know that the mayor recently made it a lot easier to get permits and licenses in the city, right?
Kelly Harris [00:20:00]: Or they're working on it.
Fanshen Cox [00:20:03]: They're working on it. There's a commitment to work on it.
Kelly Harris [00:20:05]: Well, a lot of it is. There's, there's been a lot of criticism about FilmLA.
Fanshen Cox[00:20:11]: And you want to tell— talk about what FilmLA is?
Kelly Harris [00:20:13]: Yeah, they're actually— Film LA is a nonprofit. It's not a city organization. And their job is they're kind of like the hub for us to turn in permit information. They reach out to the various city offices. So it's like kind of a one-stop shopping for us to get our permits, and then they receive a fee. And lately, there's been grumbling about FilmLA.
Fanshen Cox [00:20:39]: It's expensive. The fees are expensive. But it's expensive to film in LA, period, right?
Kelly Harris [00:20:44]: Correct. And it's not— and people will probably hate me for this, but it's not necessarily always a FilmLA problem because they don't control how much the fire department will charge for a fire safety officer.
Fanshen Cox [00:20:57]: Right. Exactly.
Kelly Harris [00:20:59]: They don't control how much DOT, the Department of Transportation, will charge for their labor to come out to make sure that our lane closure is correct or, you know, to process their paperwork. So yes, there's some things that could be done a little bit differently, but they don't have control over what other cities, you know, and what these departments are charging financially. You know, the police, you know, like we have a contract with the police department to hire, you know, retired police officers that will come and work movie details. You know, those are union positions, so they negotiate with, you know, the producers on what to pay those people. So FilmLA isn't really responsible for what some of these, you know, organizations are charging.
Fanshen Cox [00:21:50]: They, they end up— it looks like they're the ones charging because it's part of the permit. And I do have to say, because I don't talk about my job a lot on this podcast, but I'm at the California Film Commission, and our permits are free. All state-owned property permits. It's worthwhile and then you have to pay for your monitors.
Shawn Pipkin [00:22:07]: Right, producers, you heard it.
Fanshen Cox [00:22:08]: But, you know, state-owned property. So outside of LA, it is cheaper. And we encourage productions to happen outside. But that's all— we need to do a whole tax incentive episode.
Shawn Pipkin [00:22:19]: And we should.
Fanshen Cox [00:22:19]: So we'll do that at some point.
Shawn Pipkin 00:22:20]: Yes, we do.
Community Relations: Managing Neighbors & FilmLA Calls
Kelly Harris [00:22:21]: And the thing with FilmLA too, you know, when the public has a complaint or a problem, they call FilmLA. And then FilmLA calls us. OK. So— and I think that's where kind of some of the folks in my position get upset with Film LA because, you know, it's like, you get that phone call, you look and it's FilmLA. They're not calling to say hello and everything's fine.
Fanshen Cox [00:22:41]: Right. Right.
Kelly Harris [00:22:42]: A big part of the job is being prepared, anticipating any and everything that can come up. But then you also have to realize there's certain people in certain neighborhoods that have their council person on speed dial.
Shawn Pipkin [00:22:58]: Yeah.
Fanshen Cox [00:22:58]: Right.
Kelly Harris [00:22:59]: OK. And then sometimes when we are prepping a location and we have to approach neighbors or businesses, there's people that absolutely just— hate filming, and you really have to— you just need to listen. Because if you end up getting—
Fanshen Cox [00:23:18]: That's a necessary skill that you need to work and do well in this industry. Yeah.
Kelly Harris [00:23:22]: And if you're doing what the city has designated you to do to gain a permit, and there's a percentage of signatures and things like that that you need, you never want to tell a person like, look, I got my signatures and, you know, you— we're gonna be here, you know.
Shawn Pipkin [00:23:41]: Well, Kelly, before we move on, can we go back to— yeah, you know, the original question? If you would like to— people that may want to get into the supervising location manager department, do you want to give like salaries average, not necessarily yours.
Fanshen Cox [00:23:55]: Or is there scale? If you're comfortable talking about like the different levels.
Kelly Harris [00:23:59]: There are union wages, and I wish I, I, I I should have written them all down, but these are like approximations. Like an entry-level location person might make around $2,000 a week.
Fanchen Cox [00:24:10]: Okay.
Kelly Harris [00:24:12]: They also, you know, part of our union deal, because we are Teamsters, we're Teamsters 399. The location managers in New York are DGA.
Shawn Pipkin [00:24:21]: Yes.
Kelly Harris [00:24:22]: Which is very interesting.
Shawn Pipkin [00:24:23]: Yeah. It's East Coast. They're part of DGA. Yes.
Kelly Harris [00:24:26]: Yeah. Their assistants, I don't believe, are union, or they're trying to figure that out. But I know that the managers are DGA, and a lot of the managers managers I've worked with back there, like in the beginning when I did "Rage in Harlem," they're all producers and, you know, doing— are retired or dead now.
Fanshen Cox [00:24:41]: But, you know, so— So, $2K start, entry level, $2K a week?
Kelly Harris [00:24:46]: Yeah, and then they get a car rental, um, which is around $90, $91 a week, and then there's a box rental, uh, that type of thing. So, key assistant location managers, and like I said, this is like ballpark, I want to say they're around probably $2,500. And then location managers, we make $1 million a year.
Fanshen Cox [00:25:03]: So, hey, we found our new job.
Shawn Pipkin [00:25:07]: I'm sorry, was that a billion or a million?
Fanshen Cox [00:25:10]: A billion.
Kelly Harris [00:25:11]: No, it depends on the project. So, like, scale these days might just starting. I want to say it's hovering closer to around $4 million. And then that's almost like a base.
Fanshen Cox [00:25:25]: Yes.
Kelly Harris [00:25:25]: And then you can, of course, negotiate a higher rate.
Fanshen Cox [00:25:27]: And we like to talk about that and encourage our guests, you know, obviously in that entry level entry-level position, you don't have a lot of room to negotiate. But as you move up and you've got that supervising title, you are in a position to be able to— you don't have to take the first offer, right?
Kelly Harris [00:25:43]: Absolutely. Well, you know, and it comes down to, I think, knowing your worth and your value. And the people that hire you, they know what you're worth.
Fanshen Cox [00:25:52]: There you go.
Kelly Harris [00:25:53]: And it's their job to save money. Right.
Fanshen Cox [00:26:00]: And it's their job to try to give you the least that they can.
Kelly Harris [00:26:02]: Or, you know, like tell you things like, well, on the next project, on the next— Well, it's very different now. When I started out, you would have producing teams that would hire you because I started with Spelling Entertainment.
Fanshen Cox [00:26:14]: Okay. Wow. So, yeah.
Kelly Harris [00:26:17]: Yeah. So for me, my television introduction was Melrose Place. And that's how I met Ed Duffy. So, Spelling, they would just— we were like— they would just move the crew from show to show to show, to pilot to pilot to pilot.
Fanshen Cox [00:26:37]: So they meant it. Like, they meant it. If they said you were— you know, we're going to bring you back on— They meant it. They really meant it. They can't even say that anymore, right? Because there's just no— Not enough work. —infrastructure in that sense, right? And there are shorter amount of episodes per season, so.
Kelly Harris [00:26:52]: That's a wonderful point you bring up because when I started in television here, we were shooting what, 20, 23, 24, 26 episodes.
Fanshen Cox [00:27:01]: We're down to like 8, 10 for a season.
Shawn Pipkin [00:27:03]: 6 sometimes 6.
Kelly Harris [00:27:04]: So you're, you're constantly looking for the next gig. Whereas when I started, it was great.
Fanshen Cox [00:27:12]: You were chilling. Because I know what it means to winter in L.A. now.
Kelly Harris [00:27:17]: Right. Yeah. And it was one of those things where, you know,— I felt like I had a schoolteacher schedule. I would work 7, 8, 9 months a year and have 3 months off. I'd either go work on another show or take a vacation or do those type of things. And then I want to say it was what, 2008 when, you know, after the strike, the writers' strike, and streaming came in. And then, you know, you have HBO and all these other people that started doing 10 and 13 episodes of things. And, you know, and then the studios, I think they kind of rethought some of their business plans because it's like, you know, you commit to like 20-plus episodes and what if your show's a bomb? Bomb. Like, it's bad. It's horrible. And you've committed to paying people. Because, you know, when that whole thing started with the 13 episodes, sometimes they'd be like, we're going to give you 7 more, you know?
Shawn Pipkin [00:28:03]: So you get the back 9. Used to be really huge. You get 13, and they're like, we got the back 9. That was— yes, that was— DO
Fanshen Cox [00:28:08]: Oh, okay. So they weren't— they weren't contracting you.
Shawn Pipkin [00:28:14]: Being on that first part. A lot of shows, right? First season shows, you got 13. Let's see how you do.
Fanchen Cox[00:28:20]: Okay.
Kelly Harris [00:28:20]: And that was their way of protecting themselves. They thought, this is great. And as much as we want to think when we have strike situations that, oh, it hurts the studio and this and that, I think it always gives them a chance to rethink how they do business. And in major corporations, sometimes it's good to show a loss. They're not always losing money.
Fanshen Cox [00:28:41]: Interesting. They're not going to lose the money anyway. They're going to get a write-off. That is a write-off for them. Ultimately, sometimes it is, you know, the lack of protection for the labor is about ego. It's just about how are we going to look if we have to start paying you all the fraction, a fraction of what we actually get paid, right?
Kelly Harris [00:29:04]: And they're still— CEOs, they're still making money. So say, for instance, the last money, the last strike. Yeah.
Shawn Pipkin [00:29:10]: Now in 2023, thank you. SAG and Writers Strike at the same time. Screen Actors Guild, Writers Guild of America.
Kelly Harris [00:29:17]: Right? Now, for instance, let's say if you were in a show that was working in production and the strike came and you shut down, you still have sets, equipment, and everything on their stages. So you're still paying rent.
Shawn Pipkin [00:29:33]: Yes. Yes, you are.
Kelly Harris [00:29:34]: So they're still making money.
Fanshen Cox [00:29:37]: They're always still making money.
Kelly Harris [00:29:38]: And then, you know, it's— go ahead.
Fanshen Cox [00:29:40]: I was going to say, on the financials question, because I'm so— again, this is a role that we've had so infrequently on this show. Or not at all, first time on the show. So we talked about the salary. I also am curious about location budgets.
Kelly Harris [00:29:58]: Absolutely. My favorite.
Fanshen Cox [00:29:58]: So like, what would be the difference between an indie film location budget and a big budget feature film? And then for TV, what are the budgets look like?
Shawn Pipkin [00:30:07]: The Shondaland Show.
Fanshen Cox [00:30:10]: Exactly. Spelling. Yes, yes, yes.
Kelly Harris [00:30:11]: Well, it really depends. Like if you're doing, say, a micro-budget thing, you know, where it's just a 15-minute thing or whatever, it. Hopefully you get your locations for free.
Fanshen Cox [00:30:22]: You hear that right now? You know, we can't guarantee you that Kelly Harris will be your location manager, but we are saying—
Kelly Harris [00:30:30]: But you never know. You never know, because it's also about, you know, like perfecting your craft. And sometimes when you take on— and I don't want to call them low budget, like micro budget or an indie— it gives you an opportunity to just kind of remember where you came from.
Fanshen Cox [00:30:48]: Yes, we can all use that. We can all be reminded.
Kelly Harris [00:30:52]: Yes. And then if you ever, you know, had thoughts of learning to produce or learning how to UPM or, you know, that type of thing, anything, if there's anything, it's like it's about an all hands on deck situation. Right. And that's where it's safe.
Fanshen Cox [00:31:10]: That would be Sista Brunch. That would be this team right here. Absolutely. Tasha, Charlie, Sam.
Kelly Harris [00:31:16]: Yeah, absolutely.
Fanshen Cox [00:31:17]: You haven't won filling in to get, to get everything done. Okay. I love that.
Kelly Harris [00:31:21]: You might have a project that's an indie project. And for instance, I was approached about someone and they're like, you know, well, we have $75 grand for our locations. And I'm like, well, let's take a look at the script. And I looked at the script and I'm like, and what I said to them, you never want to tell people that something doesn't work or it's not enough. You know what I say to them—
Shawn Pipkin [00:31:47]: We’ll work on it.
Kelly Harris [00:31:49]: That's what I'll say is that's a good starting point. Okay.
Fanshen Cox [00:31:53]: Oh, that's nice. That's nice.
Kelly Harris [00:31:56]: That's a good start.
Fanshen Cox [00:31:56]: That's nice. You know what? This is also reminding me when you are putting together your pitch package, a pitch deck, etc. And a lot of times, you know, if you think creatively, you're not thinking about the business piece. And so I always push people, make sure you understand the budget. And then if you've got like a period piece, you should consult with a locations person so that— and then I'm so curious about Rage in Harlem. It's a perfect example, right? Where it wasn't just that you needed, you know, buildings that looked like they were in Harlem. You needed them that looked like during the Renaissance, right?
Kelly Harris [00:32:30]: Exactly.
Fanshen Cox [00:32:30]: So it had to be a particular time period too.
Kelly Harris [00:32:33]: You're removing parking meters.
Fanshen Cox [00:32:35]: Yeah, right.
Kelly Harris [00:32:36]: You're— back then we still had payphones.
Fanshen Cox [00:32:37]: Yeah, right. Wait, how do you remove a meter?
Shawn Pipkin [00:32:38]: No burglar bars on the window.
Kelly Harris [00:32:40]: All of that came off. Streetlights. That was a big deal.
Fanshen Cox [00:32:44]: All the things that were not there.
Kelly Harris [00:32:45]: You're contracting with different departments in town to have all those things removed. Yeah. You have to make sure that your streets are clear because you're going to end up parking vehicles from the '20s and '30s.
Fanshen Cox [00:32:57]: Right.
Kelly Harris [00:32:58]: We're on the streets there. So just everything, every window, everything we saw, like if somebody put like a new mailbox on a door, you know, on their front porch, all that had to be stripped down. Yeah. Yeah. So that's where you end up working very, very closely with the art department and with the production designer. Yes. You know, because they are doing a lot of the research. And we do too. That's the thing I love about my job. You know, it's not always waiting for somebody to tell you what to do. You can do the same research. You know, I have access to all the same information as my production designer or my, you know, set decorator, anybody. And they like it when you care and pay enough attention to what they need to do because you might catch something that they don't see, you know, like a phone number or like, well, we didn't have that, you know, or let's make sure we cover that up or, you know, all these things like that. So you— it's very collaborative.
Verticals + Staying Ahead
Shawn Pipkin [00:33:58]: Can I ask, we're talking about financials, like you were talking about indies, micro budgets. We've all been hearing about these new vert— well, not necessarily new, but verticals. Has that— has verticals changed your part of the industry you want to get into that?
Kelly Harris [00:34:14]: Okay. This is amazing.
Fanshen Cox [00:34:16]: I love it. Yes.
Kelly Harris [00:34:19]: Because I am so curious about vertical.
Fanshen Cox [00:34:21]: We've been talking about every guest now, and I'm realizing we didn't ask Diana Williams about it. Yeah, we've been talking about it. Right. Speaking of things. Yes. Yes.
Kelly Harris [00:34:29]: And it's not— it's not going to go away.
Fanshen Cox [00:34:34]: We need to figure out— we need to know how to do it. We do not need to get lost in the dust like we have in the past.
Kelly Harris [00:34:44]: Absolutely.
Fanshen Cox [00:34:44]: We need to be part of this. Yes, absolutely.
Kelly Harris [00:34:46]: And we, we're doing everything else, so this will be nothing for us. We just have to figure out how to shoot that particular format. I spoke to a young lady I met the other day who was an actress, and she said she had been participating in some vertical. She goes, that's what's been keeping me going. Yeah. And she goes, well, she's African-American. She goes, most of the stories are centered around, you know, white people. And she goes, but when I went— I've been going to the set sets, and the crews are all Chinese.
Shawn Pipkin [00:35:13]: Yes.
Fanshen Cox [00:35:14]: Yes. Yes.
Shawn Pipkin [00:35:14]: Yes.
Fanshen Cox [00:35:15]: Yes. Chinese companies are the ones that really kind of got it started. And they're the ones that are making a lot of money on this, but not paying a lot for it. Right?
Kelly Harris [00:35:23]: Right. Well, it depends. I think if you get enough going, or if you're shooting, because I want to look at it like this. If I, if I'm doing an hour episode or something, and I break it into 4 15-minute segments, those are 4, you different episodes. This is— it's no different. I think we just have to learn how to shoot the same. Like, because we're so used to, you know, seeing the beautiful wide shots and sweeping pans.
Fanshen Cox [00:35:52]: Yes. Yeah. It is. It's the formatting and the story. And how do you write if you're going to break down an hour-long segment? To get to it quickly. That's the thing. Yeah. Yeah. And those cliffhangers are important because the whole point is binge— make them bingeable, you know?
Shawn Pipkin [00:36:08]: Yes, you want them to see the next episode. We want them to get to the next episode. We want to get to the next episode.
Kelly Harris [00:36:14]: And I think it'll be a big boom, actually, for locations in the sense that if you have one hero location, because you're shooting in that vertical format, you're going to be able to cheat more additional locations.
Shawn Pipkin [00:36:27]: You can get 5 locations in one— 5 sets, I mean, in one location.
Fanshen Cox [00:36:33]: I love this. Yeah, because you're not seeing anything outside that little 9 by 16.
Shawn Pipkin [00:36:38]: Producers love that, by the way. When you can get multiple sets in one location, they're like mwah!
Kelly Harris [00:36:45]: So I don't think— I don't think it's something to be afraid of. I think it's something that we need to embrace.
Fanshen Cox [00:36:50]: We have to embrace it.
Kelly Harris [00:36:51]: And we need to just— I don't even say get our foot in the door. I mean, it's one of these things we can do it. We just— we just have to do it.
Fanshen Cox [00:36:58]: Listen, Sista Brunch is available to film your vertical, to produce your full vertical. Verticals for real. We've been talking about this for real. There is no reason why Sista Brunch shouldn't just become a production company for verticals because these are things we can absolutely do. We'll do it right here at UPodcaster in Hollywood.
Shawn Pipkin [00:37:19]: We have our lovely producers, DPs, directors.
Fanshen Cox [00:37:22]: This is also why we do it is because look at— we've got everything and we get to work together. You know what I mean? It doesn't— we don't have to be the only one on the set because we are all together in it.
Kelly Harris [00:37:35]: Right. And it's how we should be telling our stories.
Fanshen Cox [00:37:40]: Exactly. We have spent our careers telling everybody.
Kelly Harris [00:37:43]: Else, telling everybody else's stories. And we still will tell everybody else's.
Fanshen Cox [00:37:47]: Stories because we know their stories. They don't know our story. We know theirs.
Kelly Harris [00:37:51]: And it's because we're a part of that history, too.
Fanshen Cox [00:37:54]: Yeah, absolutely.
Kelly Harris [00:37:56]: I think it's just broadening our horizons. And, you people, you know, the whole AI thing, I look at it like this. I've been using AI for years. Anytime I pull up Google. Yeah. Anytime I talk to Siri. Yeah. Anytime I use Alexa, anytime I use that information, I understand what the concerns are in terms of—
Shawn Pipkin [00:38:17]: They're valid.
Fanshen Cox [00:38:18]: They're very valid. There's algorithm bias. There's— you're right.
Kelly Harris [00:38:21]: Absolutely.
Fanshen Cox [00:38:22]: And at the same time, it's the same with verticals. We will be left behind if we don't get on board with it.
Kelly Harris [00:38:29]: And sooner rather— we're already behind if we haven't started. So it's one of these things you can study, you can learn. Like, we're all— God, we're so amazing. We're just amazing, brilliant people. And look, as long as you can read and you can figure out stuff, you can do anything. You can do anything.
Shawn Pipkin [00:38:47]: And I love— it's like what Diane, our other guest, was saying, like, OK, the what? The what? A lot of people say, don't worry about the how. But you know, there is a point when you do. And that's where we all come together for collaboration.
Fanshen Cox [00:39:03]: That's right.
Kelly Harris [00:39:04]: And the how, especially in locations, the how is everything.
Shawn Pipkin [00:39:11]: Yes.
Kelly Harris [00:39:11]:And people, my producers don't necessarily want to know all the questions. They just want to see the result.
Fanshen Cox [00:39:20]: Results. Right, right, right, right. They're like, don't even tell us what all you had to do to get there. We just want to know where is it going to be. We want— yeah.
Kelly Harris [00:39:29]: And if it's within the budget.
Fanshen Cox [00:39:31]: And it's within the budget, yeah.
Kelly Harris [00:39:32]: And there's times when there will be problems and things that will creep up. And look, you have to know when you need to go to that producer and let them know what's going on. And that comes with experience. Each day, moment, time that you wait and you know that, okay, this is something, this hurdle, we're never going to get over it. You know, you always have to have a plan B, you know, because owners, that's the other thing with locations is that, you know, look, if I'm a grip, electrician, or carpenter or something, like when I go to my vendor, that 2x4 is going to cost, that price isn't going to change. You know, I know I can get it there. It's not going to change. That 2x4 is not going to get mad at me. You know, that light is not, this microphone is not going to get mad. You know, in locations, you're dealing with people's personalities and moods and everything. And what they've heard from other people about location filming.
Fanshen Cox [00:40:31]: About location filming, about, yeah, oh, they're going to ruin this spot.
Shawn Pipkin [00:40:34]: And Kelly's department is the first point of contact. So it's very important. You know, we all know first impressions are lasting impressions. And that is your department, majority of the time.
Kelly Harris [00:40:46]: And then for my crew, I want us to be known as the location department, not the no-cations department. And sometimes you'll have folks that, you know, get a little weary and worn out doing the job. And look, some things you're going to know that you— it's going to be a little bit difficult to do. Like if I have someone say to me, producer or director, like, OK, I want to close the 405, for instance, on Friday at 3 o'clock and film.
Fanshen Cox [00:41:15]: And OK, like, I think you've got $3 million just for that.
Kelly Harris [00:41:20]: And we need to do it next week. Yeah, right, right. Certain things it's like, I might not be able to do that for you, but I, I got a good option for you. I got a good backup for you. So that's the other thing.
Fanshen Cox [00:41:31]:That's what makes you good at it is to have all those options and don't say no. You say yes. Okay, here's what we can do. Yeah.
Signature Sista Brunch Question
Shawn Pipkin [00:41:39]: So, Kelly, getting on to Sista Brunch signature question. Imagine you're sitting down with your younger self. It could be any age. 20s, teens, elementary school. At this point, any age is younger. What are you both eating? Yes. What are you both eating? What are you both drinking? And what do you tell your younger self?
Kelly Harris [00:41:59]: That's an amazing question. We would have scrambled eggs, fruit, sourdough toast.
Fanshen Cox [00:42:11]: Oh, I love sourdough toast.
Kelly Harris [00:42:12]: And a cup of tea.
Shawn Pipkin [00:42:14]: Nice. A cup of tea.
Fanshen Cox [00:42:15]: What's your favorite tea?
Kelly Harris [00:42:18]: I like green tea. I'll drink black tea, but I like, you know, green tea. And I think what I would tell my younger self is protect your health, protect your reputation, protect your time and your finances. I'd also tell her not to lose sight of what her dreams are, making other people's dreams come true.
Fanshen Cox [00:42:52]: My goodness.
Shawn Pipkin [00:42:54]: I love that.
Fanshen Cox [00:42:54]: That's you being a director, by the way. Like, that's— Yes.
Kelly Harris [00:42:59]: Yes. Because you can get sidetracked.
Fanshen Cox [00:43:02]: You nurtured everybody else in every production. It's your time. I love that.
Kelly Harris [00:43:08]: Yes. And then also, it's a great adventure. And you're going to meet wonderful people, and you're going to be able to go places and access things and see things that you otherwise would have no business— who— I had no business being at a production— let's say a country club, you know, or being on somebody's private plane. Or scouting at the Pentagon, or, you know, in a Federal Reserve, or, you know, when I did Silicon Valley, when they hired me, they asked me, you know, can you recreate San Francisco, you know, here in Los Angeles? And I was like, of course I can. And then I said to them, I said, so when are you going to send me up north so I can go scout these places and become familiar? And they actually sent me up to the Bay Area and got me inside of Google. I actually physically got into Google. I got into Facebook. I was able to visit, visit some venture capitalists. All types of things. Uber when it was first starting out, you know, all these things. And that's stuff that happens because of this career. And I think like the most amazing thing about the journey, which is full circle because of this job and because of the people I've met and my experiences, it's brought me here today to share my time with you.
Shawn Pipkin [00:44:40]: You're going to make us cry. Stop it, Kelly. Oh my gosh. I'm very grateful.
Fanshen Cox [00:44:43]: I want to see you— Tasha's crying.
Shawn Pipkin [00:44:45]: Because Tasha— And what a great note to end this episode on.
Fanshen Cox [00:44:51]: Thank you, thank you so much. We're so proud to have you. Yeah, thank you.
Kelly Harris [00:44:57]: I love this.
Closing & Partnerships
Fanshen Cox [00:44:59]: Thank you so much for listening to another episode of the Sista Brunch podcast. Sista Brunch is brought to you by Trujillo Productions. Our season 7 producers are Sam Henderson and Tasha Rogers. Our associate producers are Ashanti Groves and Charlie Savage. Sista Brunch is filmed on the land of the Tongva, the Chumash, the Serrano, and the K'iche' peoples here in Los Angeles and at UPodcaster Studios in Hollywood. Thank you so much for listening and watching, and we will see you next week.