Diana Williams on Building IP, Story Worlds, and Using Business & Legal Strategy to Scale Creativity
Guest: Diana Williams
Titles: Producer; CEO; co-founder of Kinetic Energy Entertainment
Episode Theme: How story, strategy, and legal/business knowledge come together to build scalable IP, empower creators, and shape the future of entertainment.
Why this matters right now: The entertainment industry is undergoing a fundamental shift. Creators are no longer just storytellers—they are entrepreneurs building worlds, communities, and businesses around their ideas. In this episode, Diana Williams breaks down how understanding story, finance, and legal frameworks is essential to turning ideas into sustainable intellectual property, and why collaboration and audience connection are more critical than ever.
In this episode, Diana reflects on her journey from studying finance at Georgetown to working in entertainment law and breaking into the industry through the DGA training program. She shares how her early experience reading contracts and understanding the legal side of the business shaped her approach to producing and building IP.
She dives deep into what it really means to create intellectual property, why most creators only have ideas—not IP—and how to think beyond format to build full story worlds across film, television, games, and emerging platforms. Diana also unpacks the realities of financing in today’s industry, the startup mindset behind every project, and why she views each piece of IP as its own business.
From working across traditional Hollywood systems to building a multi-platform venture studio, she offers a clear, strategic perspective on how creators can navigate a rapidly changing industry by focusing on story, team, tech, and audience.
What we talk about
Starting in finance and using that foundation to understand the entertainment industry (00:06:23)
How working in a law firm and learning contracts shaped her career (00:07:17)
Breaking into the industry through the DGA training program (00:09:17)
Transitioning from assistant directing to producing and early documentary success (00:14:44)
What intellectual property really means—and why most creators only have ideas (00:16:16)
How to build story worlds instead of focusing on a single format (00:16:36)
Why every film and project should be treated like a startup (00:22:21)
The financial realities of being a founder and building creative businesses (00:23:30)
Why you’ll want to listen
A clear breakdown of the difference between an idea and true IP (00:16:16)
How legal and business knowledge can protect and expand your creative work (00:07:17)
A real look at the financial structure behind film, TV, and startup-style production (00:22:21)
Why collaboration—not individual genius—is the future of entertainment (00:25:47)
“Story. Team. Tech. Audience.” — a framework for building in today’s industry (00:31:01)
About the guest
Diana Williams is an award-winning producer and the CEO and co-founder of Kinetic Energy Entertainment, a multi-platform venture studio focused on building franchise-ready intellectual property across film, television, gaming, and immersive media.
With a background in finance and early experience in entertainment law, Diana brings a strategic, business-driven approach to storytelling. She began her career as an assistant director through the Directors Guild of America training program before transitioning into producing and creative development.
Her work spans traditional Hollywood, emerging technologies, and the creator economy, with a focus on building expansive story worlds and sustainable creative businesses. She has collaborated with both emerging storytellers and industry leaders, helping shape projects that live across multiple platforms and reach global audiences. Across all of her work, Diana emphasizes the importance of story, collaboration, and understanding the full ecosystem of entertainment—from legal frameworks to audience engagement.
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Keywords:
Diana Williams, Sista Brunch Podcast, Kinetic Energy Entertainment, intellectual property, IP in entertainment, film producing, media entrepreneurship, entertainment law, story worlds, transmedia storytelling, Black women producers, women in media, film and TV industry, startup filmmaking, creator economy, immersive storytelling, Hollywood business, producing strategy, DGA training program
Introduction
Shawn Pipkin [00:00:00]:
Welcome to season seven of the Sista Brunch Podcast. This is the podcast sharing the stories of black women and gender expansive people thriving in film, TV and media. I am Sean Pipkin West, also known as Pip. And I would have loved to been a full time co host this year. But gratefully and thankfully, I have been working on an amazing TV show coming out in 2027. I'll tell you guys about that later.
Fanshen Cox [00:00:27]:
Oh, you will. Good.
Shawn Pipkin [00:00:29]:
And, and now I'm gon it on to Fanshen.
Fanshen Cox [00:00:34]:
Hey, Sean, we are so thrilled to have you back. I know we only got you for a little bit, but it reminds me of starting the podcast with Anya because same thing, she got too busy for us. But we're, we're so proud to have you back on and just proud to follow your journey. You're also, because you're not only a, you know, a co host from season six, we had you on the podcast, I think two or three times.
Shawn Pipkin [00:01:00]:
Two guests. Yes, I was a guest two times.
Fanshen Cox [00:01:02]:
I love it. So it's, we can kind of go back. I mean, part of what we do on the podcast is like create these archives so we can go back even and see where you were then and now where you are now. Director, producer, leveling up, all the way up. So we're so glad.
Shawn Pipkin [00:01:20]:
And speaking of leveling up, cue the Ciara song. Level up, level up. Just remember that. Okay.
Fanshen Cox [00:01:28]:
So speaking of leveling up, also, this season of Sista Brunch is is coming to you from a studio, Hollywood. It's YouPodcaster. If you're looking for a studio for your podcast for webinars, whatever the these are, this is a black owned studio in the heart of Hollywood. Two adorable twin brothers. We will flash their picture. They're amazing. So everything is set up for you and we just appreciate being here. All right, Sean, so we ready to introduce our amazing guest?
Shawn Pipkin [00:02:00]:
Yes, we are. This woman is shaping the future of storytelling at the intersection of entertainment, entertainment, technology and culture. She's an award winning producer and CEO of Co founder of Kinetic Energy Entertainment, a multi platform venture studio transforming bold ideas into franchise ready IP across film, television, video games, immersive experiences and the creative economy. Welcome to Sista Brunch, Diana Williams.
Diana Williams [00:02:33]:
Thank you.
From Numbers to Narratives: Diana Williams’ Entry Into the Industry
Fanshen Cox [00:02:36]:
This has been a long time coming every season and I've been like, we're not ready for Diana Williams. We're not quite ready yet. And this season for real, it feels, you know, not just leveling up and we love all of our past guests as well, but leveling up in terms of the Guests that we're even able to get on the podcast. So Diana has done so many things. You work with emerging storytellers like in diverso with students and you work with legends like George Lucas. You kind of are the full gamut. You do gaming, you do publishing, you do immersion storytelling. And you are a producer on the very impactful number one on the call sheet on Apple TV. Plus, did anybody see that? It was so good. Did y' all see it?
Diana Williams [00:03:22]:
It was a great producing team.
Fanshen Cox [00:03:25]:
Yes, of course it was. Because you were on the producing team and the CEO, right? And Spirit award nominated. You just have so many accolades. We're so thrilled to have you. We want to hear about the journey, whether I actually we haven't like I say this as a joke and guess so like you don't mean it from when you were born, but as in where were you born and what led you into the industry?
Diana Williams [00:03:53]:
Great question. So I'm from New Jersey.
Fanshen Cox [00:03:57]:
New Jersey, okay. Yes. I think this might be our second New Jersey.
Diana Williams [00:04:00]:
Strong people. That's what you know, we're all Jersey girls. And I mean I came up growing up in a farm community and also military. So I. But you know, you, you go to the football games and then you would go to the movies afterwards. And so it was always a very movie going community. But like the movies were like, you know, 45 minutes an hour away. So I've always loved it. But there was one moment when we were watching Terminator and I just saw like the theater was full and I was just really interested. I've always loved math. And went and just saw that all the screens were sold out and just started kind of doing the calculation in my head and then went to the library, got some microfiche to look at varieties. My mom had told me about variety.
Shawn Pipkin [00:04:47]:
Gen Z is like, what is that?
Diana Williams [00:04:49]:
What, what is a microfiche?
Fanshen Cox [00:04:52]:
That's one of your let's talk tech answers.
Diana Williams [00:04:54]:
Yes, let's talk.
Fanshen Cox [00:04:55]:
Yes, yes.
Diana Williams [00:04:56]:
That was the beginning of my tech journey, was via microfiche.
Fanshen Cox [00:04:59]:
Amazing.
Diana Williams [00:05:00]:
And just kind of just got interested in the business of it, of the industry. I mean now we call it the industry, but back then, you know, there wasn't. There wasn't Premier magazine, there wasn't the Internet. So you had to dig in by the information. I just found it to be just culturally significant because of how much we went to the movies. At that time there's only three networks and so everybody gathered around the television. Everyone talked about it the next day. Because you all saw the same episode at the same time. And if you missed it, good luck. Luck to you.
Shawn Pipkin [00:05:33]:
Right?
Diana Williams [00:05:34]:
And so this is, you know, this is late. This is the mid-80s, not even late 80s. It was the mid-80s. So that kind of began my journey. Once I started to see, like, how big it was, I always knew I was going to go into finance. But then I settled on being a person that was going to analyze entertainment companies.
Fanshen Cox [00:05:52]:
Okay.
Diana Williams [00:05:52]:
So that's where it all kind of came from, especially. And also, I was just kind of that. And then what kids? So my mom would tell us stories. She would end it like, you know, and I'm like, what? But then where did they go? And so I can look back at those moments and see that those defined who I am today. The story part and the how the money allows the story part to continue. So they're always joined together for me.
Education, Finance & Pivoting to Film
Fanshen Cox [00:06:19]:
Did you go to school for, like, what did you study?
Diana Williams [00:06:23]:
I studied finance. I went to Georgetown University, co Hoyas. So, yeah, I was a finance major. I was on my way to Wall Street. I had the job offer, that analyst, everything. But I wanted to really understand what. What it meant to make a movie because the movie was the product, but no one really knew how it got made unless you were in California if you're one of those families, if you're, you know, all those things. And I thought to be a better analyst, I would have to really understand the product. So I had deferred some of the job offers to go to California. I was, I'm going to make a movie. I'm going to understand the product, and then I'm coming back.
Fanshen Cox [00:07:05]:
Yes.
Diana Williams [00:07:06]:
Yeah, it doesn't work out. Yeah. But it also doesn't work out that way because then you get out here like, oh, it's not like you just go to a job board and get, like. It just. You really had to know someone. And I knew no one.
Fanshen Cox [00:07:17]:
So what happened? What was.
Diana Williams [00:07:19]:
So my girl, Melissa Bradley, she was like. Because they were all really-
Fanshen Cox [00:07:23]:
Shout out to- I mean, even having her name said on this on this podcast is amazing.
Diana Williams [00:07:28]:
She's amazing. And, you know, we went to college together. And when I had decided to not go to Wall street, she's like, oh, girl, what are you doing? And so she gave me, like, this stack of alumni cards to kind of like, call people if you're going to go to California. So you know somebody.
Fanshen Cox [00:07:41]:
Yeah.
Diana Williams [00:07:43]:
And the one of the calls I made was to Howard Weitzman, rest in peace. And. And he was like, yeah, I'll hire you, because I'd worked in law firms all through. So I put myself through Georgetown. And so I had, like, a bajillion jobs. Was working 40 hours a week, doing 18 credit hours. And one of them was as a. As a law. As assistant, as a paralegal. And so he's like, you got this experience and come work here. And I was like, great. So I go to work for him at his. At his law firm. And I was there for about a year and a half. And he was like, you've got to go to law school. You've got. Because I really, like. I love law. Like, that is the other thing. Like, I am a law enthusiast and-
Fanshen Cox [00:08:19]:
We would want to understand the law. If one comes into the entertainment industry and doesn't want to get taken advantage of the financing the law. This is. This is a theme this season. A lot is, like, those aspects that we needed to know. It's not just the creative, and the creative is so important, but there's so much more to help you be successful or even to just make something.
Breaking In: The DGA Training Program
Diana Williams [00:08:44]:
It's just support. And that's what it gave me by being at that law firm. Was just learning how to read the contracts, the language that is used. And he really wanted me to go to law school. He's like, guaranteed you'll get into USC no problem. And I was like, no, I really. I have to learn film so that I can then go back to Wall Street. And he's like, well, I heard about this program, and just. He. I remember he threw this pamphlet on my desk. He was so mad. He just threw this pamphlet on my desk. And. And it was for the assistant director's training program for the DGA.
Fanshen Cox [00:09:17]:
Wait, wait, wait. Do we. Do you know that that's how Sista Brunch got started?
Diana Williams [00:09:22]:
Yeah. I've been listening.
Shawn Pipkin [00:09:27]:
Oh, my gosh. So you-you applied.
Fanshen Cox [00:09:29]:
Oh, my goodness. I love this. Because, y', all, I did not know that I had-
Shawn Pipkin [00:09:34]:
Because I am a graduate of the program, and I'm also on the board of the training plan right now. So I was a trainee, and now I'm on the board.
Fanshen Cox [00:09:44]:
Yes.
Diana Williams [00:09:47]:
So, super funny. Yeah. It was such a weird theme because I. Again, I don't know anything. So at this point, I think I just turned. They just turned 21 me because I graduated school early and everything else. So I was super early. And so I was like, okay, I'll try this thing. And I remember just getting to that. It was a huge line at USC to take the test the first.
Shawn Pipkin [00:10:08]:
Yes, yes.
Diana Williams [00:10:10]:
And everyone's in this line. And I was like-
Fanshen Cox [00:10:13]:
They went to USC to take the test?
Shawn Pipkin [00:10:14]:
Well, back then, when there was a test. Like, and there was a line of thousands of people to take that test.
Diana Williams [00:10:21]:
I legit knew nothing. I didn't know anything about this program. I didn't know anything. DGA? Well, I know nothing. Of course. I, you know, you watch the Academy Awards back then on ABC. And, like, I knew about directors. I knew nothing.
Fanshen Cox [00:10:33]:
I did not know this story. Amazing.
Diana Williams [00:10:36]:
I. I'm standing in line. Of course, everyone in front of me, they're like, you know, this is my 15th time taking a test. This is my. And I'm like, oh, this is hard to get into. 100% not going to happen. Why am I? And I had tickets to go see Phantom of the Opera, downtown LA. And I was like, this is a rap. I don't really care about it because it's not going to. Because I just kept saying to myself, it's not going to happen. I've got, like, all these. And it was primarily, like, men in the line with me who were just like, you know, this is so hard. And I'm like, wow, why am I bothering? So I go in there and take the test. And this is- so I’m sitting there. And they're like, you know, put your. Put your name here, people. Like, well, where do we put our name? And I'm like, it says right there, name. And I was like, if I can't get past this group of people.
Fanshen Cox [00:11:16]:
Yeah, yeah.
Diana Williams [00:11:16]:
Something is wrong.
Fanshen Cox [00:11:17]:
Yes.
Diana Williams [00:11:18]:
And so I did. I got through each stage and then comes like the final interview.
Shawn Pipkin [00:11:25]:
I call it the Inquisition.
Diana Williams [00:11:27]:
And, it is. Because you. Because even before. So you walk in, the room's kind of dark. It's like 30 people. And it's like this, like, the council. And you don't really see anybody's face because the room is dark. It's very dramatic lighting. And before my butt hit the chair, the first questions come out. So your actors aren't talking to each other, but you know that you're actually. That they're actually dating. And there's There. You need to get a gargoyle. And I was like, wait, what is this?
Fanshen Cox [00:11:53]:
Woah. Okay.
Diana Williams [00:11:54]:
But even before that, there was that. I don't know if they still do this, but there was the test where, like, it gets down to like 115 people or something like that. And they put you in these groups.
Shawn Pipkin [00:12:02]:
Assessment center is what we call it, because we want to see how you interact in group settings.\
Diana Williams [00:12:07]:
And it's pretty fantastic trying to see, like, how well, do you read situations without having the full information? What do you pull out of them? But one of the big ones that we had done was. So this is a group of like, maybe 30, and they asked this question of, like, okay, the plane goes down. You have to figure out how to go, blah, blah, blah. The. And the question is, like, you know, you have this list of. Of. Of items to choose from, which, you.
Fanshen Cox [00:12:33]:
know, what are you taking with you?
Diana Williams [00:12:34]:
And then. And then like, do you stay or do you go? So the whole time, everybody's arguing about the 15 items. And you can tell people want to be alpha dogs.
Shawn Pipkin [00:12:42]:
Yes.
Diana Williams [00:12:43]:
And I just kind of sat and just listened, and I'm watching the Club Countdown. I'm like, I haven't said anything. Let me have to say something. And I said, well, you keep saying that we're going to bring this. This rope. We're gonna drag it through that. We're gonna have everybody tied together, then we'll use it for this user for that. I'm like, it's only a 30 pound test line, which means it's gonna break and everything else. Because. Because I was a girl Scout, so I understood.
Fanshen Cox [00:13:06]:
You like math, you like-
Diana Williams [00:13:08]:
So out of that group, I was the one that got through. But here's the crazy thing. The actual question was, do you stay or do you go? Not what items do you bring? Do you stay or do you go?
Fanshen Cox [00:13:19]:
That's what they wanted to know.
Diana Williams [00:13:19]:
Not a single group answered that question. So it was kind of really fascinating. But, yeah. So I found out years later, years later, from the woman who was running it, that I guess there was a big fight about me getting in because they only. My year was 15 people out of, like, 1800 had applied or something like that. And the fight was because, one, I answered the question wrong. Where do you see yourself in 10 years? And I said directing, because I didn’t-
Fanshen Cox [00:13:47]:
Oh no no. Right, right. So if y' all are applying, you don't say that. You say-
Diana Williams [00:13:51]:
I didn't know the position.
Shawn Pipkin [00:13:54]:
Because the assistant. It's about being an assistant director, which is the management part of the DGA. We're not teaching directing. We're teaching to be like a producer. To be a producer.
Diana Williams [00:14:05]:
Line producer to producer.
Fanshen Cox [00:14:06]:
Right.
Diana Williams [00:14:06]:
And so. But I only knew the one position.
Fanshen Cox [00:14:09]:
That's all you knew.
Diana Williams [00:14:11]:
So I gave the wrong answer. And I was the youngest ever admitted to the program. So they really. They were concerned about my maturity level. They're concerned about that. How many things do you want to say?
Shawn Pipkin [00:14:20]:
I'm sorry, Dian, do you want to say what year this is? We don't have. I'm just curious.
Diana Williams [00:14:23]:
Oh, it. Was it math? I graduated college at 89. So this was 90 or 91. 90, I think.
Shawn Pipkin [00:14:30]:
Okay.
Diana Williams [00:14:31]:
Yeah.
Fanshen Cox [00:14:32]:
Oh, my goodness. I wonder if there's photos, there's archives. I feel like we gotta do stuff.
Shawn Pipkin [00:14:40]:
We're gonna talk a lot after this.
Diana Williams [00:14:42]:
All right.
Fanshen Cox [00:14:43]:
We have to move on. What a coincidence.
Early Career: Assistant Directing & First Producing Wins
Diana Williams [00:14:44]:
That's what started. My journey was being. Was being an AD. So I worked as an AD for a long time, but at the same time I was with. I was learning. I was with this guy and he was at UCLA and he had to do a senior thesis and at, you know, at the film schools, it's all directors working on the same thing. And they. No one wants to work because they're all judging each other. And he's like, I need you to help me with my doc. This is crazy. I can't deal with these people. And so I put the doc together and we went to Ireland to shoot and all this sort of stuff while I was also 18. But the document just did really well.
Fanshen Cox [00:15:22]:
Nickels. Like win a?
Diana Williams [00:15:23]:
We got nominated for Student Academy Award, like all these things. And so this is also the dawn of cable. This is also when it's gonna be 200 plus. All this stuff is going on. And so we were getting all these offers to do what is now reality tv, but back then it was, you know, sitting in a hospital waiting for people to come in. And I was like, hey, do you want to sign this when I interview you? So that was the beginning of all of that kind of storytelling. Off of this documentary. But I was still 18 because money and. Yes, but I obviously did not go back to Wall Street.
Shawn Pipkin [00:15:52]:
You did not go back to Wall Street.
Diana Williams [00:15:54]:
Yeah, so.
Storytelling, IP & Building Creative Worlds
Shawn Pipkin [00:15:55]:
So this is a good segue, you know. As someone who builds IP on different platforms and industries, can you tell us what the core principles are that guide you to choose certain projects, you know, to show up as a leader, especially while, you know, balancing the creative innovation, cultural responsibility and scale of the projects.
Diana Williams [00:16:16]:
So. Great question, because that really does. I. I learned a lot from being an AD and from seeing how these productions works.
Shawn Pipkin [00:16:24]:
Life lessons Yes.
Diana Williams [00:16:24]:
And how, you know, why things get made and greenlit and everything else. So when I'm looking at IP, really I'm looking at just story, story and story world. That's the first thing. It's a fast follow-
Fanshen Cox [00:16:36]:
Story is the thing. Right.
Shawn Pipkin [00:16:36]:
Storytelling. Yes.
Diana Williams [00:16:40]:
And it is the breath of the story. So we don't think in format. So someone may come in and it may be a, it may be a script or a book or an idea, but I'm always like, let's not talk about the format, let's talk about the world, the why of the world, the, you know, if you have your characters with the character journeys, how, how many things are populating it. Like if you talk about somebody walking down the street, then I want to talk about, well, how they walking, what are they wearing, what kind of a street is it? Are there cars on the side? If they're not cars, then what are they? Who built those cars? Who works in the factories? And you just start to kind of build out and out and out and out. And that's the world building. And so I don't. What I always say when someone's like, I have an IP, I'm like, nope, you have an idea. Because without business legal and the full structure around it, you just have a folder on your laptop.
Fanshen Cox [00:17:39]:
All season, all six seasons, seven seasons. If you haven't learned anything else, that is it, right? Is that the, the idea is just the beginning.
Diana Williams [00:17:50]:
Just the beginning.
Fanshen Cox [00:17:51]:
That is just the beginning. Okay.
Shawn Pipkin [00:17:53]:
And Dan, I just want to say because we have a lot of people that don't are in our industry and don't know certain terms. Can you explain what IP is?
Diana Williams [00:18:01]:
So intellectual property, so it's a legal term. It is what all the studios are trying to protect. It's not only just studios.
Shawn Pipkin [00:18:06]:
Copyright. Yes.
Diana Williams [00:18:07]:
Think about like intellectual properties also around, you know, books. It's also around science. It's different medicine. It could, it could possibly be, you know, the design of this water bottle. It is all it is how things are protected. Is that that idea, that thing gets protected. So but it come, it's outward facing. I mean there's plenty of rules all around it, but we throw around IP a lot in this industry and everyone thinks they have IP. And I'm like, you don't you have an idea?
Shawn Pipkin [00:18:35]:
An idea is not IP.
Diana Williams [00:18:37]:
At most I'll say you have an IP to be.
Shawn Pipkin [00:18:39]:
Okay.
Fanshen Cox [00:18:45]:
But to understand all the things that need to happen for that to eventually end up as a game, as a book, as a, film whatever.
Diana Williams [00:18:52]:
As whatever it is meant to be wherever this. Because every, every platform, every media does something very distinct and unique and special to that story. So I read a book and it allows me to imagine so many things in my head. Books, you know, on the whole you can use as many words as you want to describe something. A film, for the love of God, stop making three hour films. But For a film, you know, it is a.
Fanshen Cox [00:19:19]:
Cut them up make it atleast like, make it two.
Diana Williams [00:19:20]:
Yeah. You know, it’s something. Yeah, yeah. But, you know, that is a linear experience that is 90ft away from you. It is a story being told to you that you allow what the storyteller is doing to wash over you. A game. I'm fully involved. I have agency. I have some effect on what happens in there. So every single media does something very different, distinct story. And so you are. So when myself and my co founder, Dario Dazani, when we're looking at anything coming in, we're just. We're asking, well, where does it want to be? How does it want to be? And how are we value add to that journey?
Join Us on Patreon
Fanshen Cox [00:19:57]:
You might be listening to this on Apple or Spotify, which is fine, and we love that. If so, leave us a review. Click that. 5 stars. But if you want to see the lovely, gorgeous, beautiful, amazing faces of our guests, you can head over to our YouTube channel. So that's YouTube.com TruJulo media. That's T R U J U L O Media. TruJulo stands for truth, justice and love, because that's what we're all about here at Sista Brunch.
Diana Williams [00:20:27]:
Hi, I'm Diana Williams, and you are watching Sista Brunch.
Let’s Talk Finance
Fanshen Cox [00:20:31]:
So we're gonna. We're gonna transition into our financials question. And we've already touched on this a little bit. And this can be whatever you're comfortable with, and it can be ballparks. It could be budget costs or it could be what you make as a CEO or what it took to become a CEO. Anything you'd like. I mean, you also do so much for entrepreneurs and entrepreneurship. So whatever in there you want to talk about to kind of help our listeners, our viewers, understand what they need to know about financials in the industry.
Diana Williams [00:21:09]:
So. Oh, boy. So financials in the industry, the myth, the lie. So it just depends on how you want to be in the industry. Like, so much is changing right now. And, you know, right now, as we're recording this, in 2025, at the end of the year, the entire industry has changed, fundamentally changed. People want to say it's a shift, it's this. No, it has changed. Nothing is the same as it was in 2019.
Shawn Pipkin [00:21:37]:
Structurally everything.
Diana Williams [00:21:38]:
The entire environment.
Shawn Pipkin [00:21:40]:
Yes.
Diana Williams [00:21:40]:
The flow that is coming in. The way people think about their creative, the way think about themselves as creators, the creative teams have changed. The fact that we have creator economy and we have the traditional industry. So much has changed. So when we looked at this landscape and we were looking at in 2019 and 2020 and I was asking the question of myself, like, who do I want to be in this? And there's so much opportunity to be an entrepreneur, to be a founder. But so when you look at that, look at it from that structure of a startup and we all know from doing independent film, every film is a startup. Even, I'm sorry, and even Hollywood films. So films are, each one's a startup. You get your financing, you put together your budget, you hire the people you make the product.
Fanshen Cox [00:22:21]:
LLC. Like literally you go through the very beginning of yes.
Shawn Pipkin [00:22:24]:
You are an entrepreneur.
Diana Williams [00:22:25]:
You are an entrepreneur yes. And then it closes because it gets sold or it gets acquired and that entity closes and it becomes the next thing. So when we are thinking about that and I look at myself as a founder and as a co founder and as a CEO, I'm a terrible boss because I'm not paying myself because I am starting a company. This is what we are doing in every, every and I try not to call them projects that we have underneath Kinetic. They are all businesses. So every IP business underneath us is run as a business. And so we are looking at what the flow of those budgets are to keep the business running so that we can continue to always make great stories that reach an audience. Our job. And the reason why I got into this industry, why I really love it and stay with it, is that I want to stories for someone else to enjoy. How they enjoy it is also up to them how they enjoy it. And but I want to, I want to provide those entry points for them to be able to come into the world as they want to. So then when I'm looking at the financials, I'm like, what is the right amount of money to spend there that allows the creator and the creative team to be able to make a great thing? And then what is the financing that goes against that to make sure it gets to market. That is what the job is. Is. I love my job. I'm great at my job. I have a great team around us to, to do these things. But the finances, they're not great because it is a startup. And anyone that does a startup, you know, whether we're talking tech, whether you have decided you want to make T shirts or whatever it is, the money goes into the making so that you get the thing to market. You hope that then once it gets to market, more money comes back in so that you can continue to make the next thing and you can pay yourself.
Fanshen Cox [00:24:06]:
I'll Just take the opportunity to say, join us on our Patreon community where you can sign up for a membership, but really to do exactly this, I mean, Sista Brunch is a startup. It's a seven year old startup at this point, but it really is, it's the same thing. It's like as the money comes in, if you want it to continue, you've got to put that back out. But we do need to pay ourselves. So I'll just say that means we are good business people as well, is that we are paying ourselves. So you want to make sure that you also built in right.
Diana Williams [00:24:38]:
And you know,you have to also. I look at so many companies that have started up, especially in the last year, they're like, we've got this money and they go and they run off and they get these big buildings and offices. And I'm like, why? Makes no sense. Makes no sense.
Let’s Talk Tech
Shawn Pipkin [00:24:51]:
What are you doing! Brick and mortar. I mean, we all know what's happening with brick and mortar stores and buildings. But Diana, I have a question. Crystal ball time. To the future. And I know things are uncertain. Anybody that wants to get in our industry right now, because have you said structurally, fundamentally it has changed. Looking to the future, what are either skills or what are some. I guess what kind of education skills do people need for them to succeed in the future? Not right now, in our industry in the future. What do you think, think are fundamental skills or education that they need to succeed?
Fanshen Cox [00:25:37]:
I'll just say we'll add that into our let's talk, let's tech talk segment. It's perfect, right? Yes, yes.
Diana Williams [00:25:47]:
That's such a great another great question. You can tell you’re an AD. Okay, so it's a trait, I think more than a skill.
Fanshen Cox [00:25:57]:
Okay.
Diana Williams [00:25:58]:
The trait of collaboration, understanding what you're good at, what you're not good at, and surrounding yourself by people who are good at those things. Oh, I, I think this coming next era of entertainment is absolutely about collaborations. More so I think that that is we have put together this false narrative of their being the one, and that's all they talk about. I just listen to, I just listened to a great interview by Vince Gilligan, who really gave so many props to his team. He kept talking about the team. He is, he's at the top of his game. And if that man can continue to talk about the team and the traits of the team and what it takes to, and how long and how hard is to get something to market, we all should be thinking about it in that way. So I do think.
Shawn Pipkin [00:26:42]:
And real quick, those who don't know, Vince Gilligan is the showrunner of shows like Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul and new Plurabis show, which. Whew, anyway, but yes, I'm sorry, continue. I just want, I love this.
Fanshen Cox [00:26:56]:
To all this just say, because on our prep call, when I, at when I told you about the let's talk tech question, you said tech is anything that allows you. And now you're. You're literally saying the thing that allows you to get it done is collaboration. That's tech.
Diana Williams [00:27:12]:
And along with that comes again, if we think about tech. And people just always want to talk about like, oh, you know, computery stuff, but like breaking it down. Tech was the camera. That was the initial thing of this whole industry. So. And then came sound again. That was tech. So moving forward, like what tech allows you to do and knowing of tech, it allows the how. That is what tech is there for the how.
Fanshen Cox [00:27:38]:
Yeah.
Diana Williams [00:27:39]:
And it allows for the ideation, the production and the sharing and then the distribution. So we'll flip distribution and sharing.
Fanshen Cox [00:27:47]:
Yeah.
Diana Williams [00:27:48]:
So I do think that understanding, audience understanding, you know, we keep. We can say market, we can say audience. I don't think in quadrants, I don't think in segments. I think in who wants to love this thing. We've spent a lot of time talking about wide audiences and quadrants as opposed to thinking about like Kevin Kelly, author, he talks about the 1000 true fans. And that's your evangelizers. That's how you start. And so why have we forgotten about that? How. Why have we forgotten about niches? So again, going back to what's going to be important for the future, it's like thinking a little bit beyond just this one thing, because it is an ecosystem right now, our ecosystem of entertainment is hurting. It is unhealthy healthy because creators have forgotten about the audience. To be for real, for real filmmakers specifically have forgotten about the audience. The investment side, the buyer side, has gotten confused as to what is important to what they do, which is you must have the creative. Yes, they have. Everyone is kind of taking advantage of the audience. The audience is like, we're here. We, you know, the audience, the audience, the listener. The audience, the listener, the watcher, the player, all of them, they are there and we have forgotten them. And so it's important to also understand what does it mean to go to your community? What does it mean? We say community as opposed to consumer or audience because we are just saying because we want to be in that Two way communication with whoever wants to love the story worlds we're putting together. And story worlds are not just. They can be the linear, they can be the, you know, Jack and Jill went up the hill. That's a story. But then there's also like, again, going back to Melissa Bradley, we have new majority ventures and her whole thing is like, how do, how does she support entrepreneurs getting out of the deficit mindset. That is a theme. That is a world around a theme and emotion which we can then put products against. So she has, we have the Founder Hustle podcast. We also have, where she's also on Thinkific, where she has different courses for people to be able to learn how to start their own startups. So again, you can. When we talk about IP, when we talk about franchises, not just to think of it being like, you know, spaceships and pew, pew, pew. They are also coming around an idea. There's romance, which is about the happily ever after. You're coming around that idea. And the community is so strong. So when we're looking at moving forward into the future, I also want to, you know, we have to think about the entire ecosystem, but we also have to realize, you know, to quote the Real Housewives of Atlanta, it ain't about you, boo. It is about the entire thing. And that can feel overwhelming. And I understand that. So to not feel overwhelmed, it is also about the team, because you are also turning to that person.
Shawn Pipkin [00:30:31]:
You're not alone. And that is so important because if you remember, in one of my earlier interviews, I said, people think I need to know everything about everything. No, you don't.
Fanshen Cox [00:30:42]:
Right? You can’t.
Shawn Pipkin [00:30:44]:
You don't need to know everything. What you need to do is find people that know what you don't know and collaborate with them together. Because it's a village. It is a team.
Fanshen Cox [00:30:54]:
That’s right. That’s right. Work together. Yeah, so story, team. Like story,collaboration is the- story team.
Diana Williams [00:31:01]:
Story. Team. Tech.
Shawn Pipkin & Fanshen Cox [00:31:03]:
Story. Team. Tech
Diana Williams [00:31:04]:
It's five things. It's. It's, well, six. Okay. It's story. It's your team. So your team is including business and legal. It is your tech and it is also the audience. Consumer, Community. Players.
Fanshen Cox [00:31:21]:
The community is you and the community is them. And it's. Yeah. Oh, yes. Okay. Okay.
Shawn Pipkin [00:31:28]:
We need two more hours with you.
Fanshen Cox [00:31:30]:
We do. We really do, baby. I know we have more. I was so glad it turned out for you to be here, but I didn't even know the DGA connection, that in and of itself is so lovely.
Shawn Pipkin [00:31:44]:
This is amazing.
Signature Sista Brunch Question
Fanshen Cox [00:31:45]:
But we do have to wrap up and we're going to do our signature Sista Brunch question. Are you going to do that one, Sean? You want to? You want to ask it?
Shawn Pipkin [00:31:52]:
Yes, I will do. Okay, so Diana, your younger self, whether it's elementary age, high school, college, early 20s, younger self, you're sitting down at Sista Brunch with your younger self. What are you both eating, what are you both drinking? And what do you tell her? What do you want to say to your younger self?
Diana Williams [00:32:17]:
Okay, so my younger self, who's going to be 21, so my younger self will have a cheeseburger from either Amboy or from Standing's Butcher.
Fanshen Cox [00:32:30]:
Wait, from where to?
Shawn Pipkin [00:32:32]:
Because Amboy, like Jersey Perth Amboy.
Diana Williams [00:32:35]:
Oh no, it's down downtown LA.
Fanshen Cox [00:32:37]:
Oh, okay, okay, okay.
Diana Williams [00:32:38]:
Perfectly done. French fries and a dirty martini with three olives.
Fanshen Cox [00:32:45]:
Nice.
Diana Williams [00:32:45]:
I'm gonna have a meal that's either done by Alinea or Jose Andres or something of it.
Fanshen Cox [00:32:54]:
Fancy friend.
Diana Williams [00:32:55]:
And here's why with the hamburger, what you are remembering is like basics have to be great no matter what. And everything springs from that. So you can go from. So it's I think again going back. When I think about, again thinking about audience, it's like we can't dismiss so many things. And so when people look down on cheeseburgers, I'm like, well that's crazy bananas because, because cheeseburgers are delicious, they're sustaining, they provide just a base for so many things. If you cannot make a great cheeseburger, if you cannot make great french fries, who are you? Then when we go to the, to the other echelon, when we look at these other types of foods, when we look at the, the Alinea’s, the John’s, the, these types of high end meals, these are people who have taken a craft to another level, but they still understand the craft. These people can all make great cheeseburgers, but they can also look at, at what is molecular breakdowns of different types of foods. How are you looking at a different way to use a flour? How. So this is all a part of the craft of what we're all doing in this industry. And so I would really want to remind my younger self to always be curious. And you can be curious from, from. And I don't like to say high and low end because like again, that's, that is putting assigning value. It's just about the spectrum. So that is what I would absolutely say to my, to my younger self.
Shawn Pipkin [00:34:18]:
Diana. You realize when you were talking about the cheeseburger and height, you're basically talking about the plot of the move, the film, The MenuI don't know if anyone saw that.
Diana Williams [00:34:27]:
Ish. Yeah.
Shawn Pipkin [00:34:30]:
When you think about the cheeseburger. And the fine food. Anyway, I was like, this is what The Menu is about anyway. Really?
Fanshen Cox [00:34:35]:
Really? I didn't know that. I did not.
Diana Williams [00:34:36]:
It's perfect.
Fanshen Cox [00:34:37]:
But I am going to go to Fat Burger after this.
Diana Williams [00:34:39]:
I will say that, yes, I live at live on Cheeseburgers. I absolutely do. But you know, but another thing I just. I do want to kind of add in. It's like when we are talking about teams and collaboration and everything. Working with Dario we first met building out The Muppets. That's how we first met.
Shawn Pipkin [00:34:57]:
I know.
Fanshen Cox [00:34:57]:
Because by the way, we didn't even talk about your time on Lucasfilm and what you did.
Diana Williams [00:35:01]:
Yeah. It’s what you guys want?
Fanshen Cox [00:35:04]:
I know. I'm like, oh, part two. Sam our producer will be upset. Okay, but bonus episode. For real.
Shawn Pipkin [00:35:11]:
Yes for real. And I want to be there, please. I want to be there, please.
Fanshen Cox [00:35:15]:
Absolutely. But we. Because that is a whole other story and part of you. That. And it's going back to your point about the cheeseburger is like there's the classic cheeseburger. So that doesn't take away from all of the things that you've done. But also then George Lucas is the Jose Andres version. Is it Andres. The fancy restaurant version of that cheeseburger.
Diana Williams [00:35:44]:
But no I actually, I don't. It's a part of. It's a middle of the journey, I don't think because like doing all the other things, the location based experiences, immersive, all that sort of stuff to me is. Is. Is the full menu. Is the full menu.
Fanshen Cox [00:35:57]:
It's the full menu. It's the cheeseburger with like all the sauce, all the fixings, everything in there. Okay. Diana Williams, thank you so much.
Diana Williams [00:36:07]:
Thank you for having me. This is amazing.
Fanshen Cox [00:36:09]:
We'll ask you to promise to come back for that bonus episode. To really share more. And welcome to the Sista Brunch community.
Diana Williams [00:36:19]:
Part of it, longtime listener, first time on. But I'm so excited. Oh, that's so great.
Shawn Pipkin [00:36:25]:
It's amazing. Thank you so much, Diana.
Closing & Partnerships
Fanshen Cox [00:36:27]:
Sista Brunch is brought to you by TruJulo Productions and was created by Christabel Nsiah-Buadi, Anya Adams and me, Fanshen Cox. Our producers for season seven are Tasha Rogers and Samantha K. Henderson. Our associate producer is Ashanti Groves. Sista Brunch is recorded on the land of the Tongva, the Gabrielano, the Kich and the Serrano peoples. Thank you so much for joining us for the Sista Brunch podcast for listening and sharing and reviewing and subscribing. We so appreciate you and we will talk to you next week.