Kamala Avila-Salmon on Producing with Purpose, Inclusion at the Greenlight Stage, and Turning Relationships into Real Industry Access
Guest: Kamala Avila-Salmon
Titles: Producer; studio executive; inclusion strategist; founder of Kas Kas Productions
Episode Theme: How representation, strategy, and strong relationships can shape a career in entertainment and change which stories get made.
Why this matters right now: The entertainment industry still talks a big game about inclusion while too often treating it like a marketing add-on instead of a development priority. In this episode, Kamala Avila-Salmon breaks down how she built a path from music to film and television, why access and cold outreach still matter, and what it looks like to influence storytelling before a project is ever greenlit.
Kamala Avila-Salmon is a producer, studio executive, and inclusion strategist whose work bridges creativity, business, and advocacy. In this episode, she reflects on how growing up Jamaican and seeing joyful, complex Black families on screen shaped her understanding of media and possibility. She shares her path from the music industry to Harvard Business School to Los Angeles, where she restarted her career in film and TV from the ground up. Kamala also talks about building Kas Kas Productions, bringing inclusion into the development process at Lionsgate, and breaking down industry terms like packaging, salary bands, and getting projects set up. It is a smart, practical conversation about access, strategy, and how asking the right questions can help change the stories that get made.
What we talk about
Growing up Jamaican and how representation shaped her worldview (00:02:14)
From the music business to a film and TV career pivot (00:05:22)
Starting over in Los Angeles and building a career through relationships (00:08:28)
Kas Kas Productions and what “good trouble” means in practice (00:12:39)
Industry terms like packaging, buyers and sellers, and getting projects set up (00:26:00)
Why you’ll want to listen
How representation can shape ambition and career direction (00:03:38)
Why cold outreach still opens doors in entertainment (00:08:28)
How producing can grow out of strategic creative work (00:17:04)
A practical breakdown of Hollywood titles, pay bands, and studio structure (00:22:53)
“Keep going and keep saying yes.” (00:33:09)
About the guest
Kamala Avila-Salmon is a producer, studio executive, and inclusion strategist whose work focuses on how stories are developed and greenlit at scale. Born in Jamaica and raised in the United States, she brings a global Black perspective to her work and has built a career grounded in passion, curiosity, and strategy. Her path spans the music industry, Harvard undergraduate and business studies, and leadership roles across tech and entertainment, including her development work at Lionsgate. She is the founder of Kas Kas Productions, a company rooted in the idea of “good trouble,” where she continues to advocate for storytellers and push inclusion into the development process. Across her career, Kamala has focused on demystifying the industry and ensuring that diverse stories are considered from the very beginning, not just at the marketing stage.
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Introduction
Fanshen Cox [00:00:00] Welcome back to the Sista Brunch podcast, and this is season seven. I can't even believe that every time I say it. I'm so proud of us. I'm so excited about this archive that we're building of the stories of black women and black gender expansive people who are thriving like not. We use to say surviving, but really they are all thriving in entertainment and media, film, tv, content creation, all of the above. And today's guest is no exception. Today we have Kamala Avila Salmon with us, and I'm gonna tell you a little bit on her bio and then we're gonna dive right into this. The bio could go on for about three years honestly.
Kamala Avila-Salmon [00:00:41] It's not.
Fanshen Cox [00:00:42] but we're gonna, we're gonna make it short so we get into the conversation. So, um, she is a producer. A studio executive and an inclusion strategist whose work is shaping how stories are developed and greenlit at scale. I am so proud of her and excited about this. She is the founder of Kas Kas Productions and we'll be getting into that. So welcome to the Sista Brunch podcast, you, Sistrin.
Kamala Avila-Salmon [00:01:06] Thank you so much for having me, Fanshen, and for just creating this space for us to come together and talk and share and be honest. Your authenticity and your just passion for us thriving in this industry has always been just amazing to be a part of.
Fanshen Cox [00:01:22] Oh my goodness. Thank you. That's, that's incredible to hear coming from you because I consider you somebody that I look up to and follow in terms of everything that you do. You're you, if you, you, you gotta follow. I mean, you know, you're on the socials, but, but your LinkedIn is particularly inspiring and educational. It's, it's so good. So we like to start having our guests go as far back as you want to to tell us how you ended up sitting on this chair today. And then I'll just ask in particular for you, because your production company is Kas Kas. You are a Jamaican woman? We have three guests plus the host that are Jamaican this season which is unusual. So also just tie in. If there, if you have experiences around being Jamaican or an and or immigrant to this country.
Jamaican Roots & Early Representation Impact
Kamala Avila-Salmon [00:02:14] Yeah. So one love hearing how much Jamaican sistern are on the show this season. And sharing that heritage with our host. Very, very meaningful to me. So I'm Kamala. And I was born in Jamaica, actually. So, um, I spent the first four years of my life there and then moved with my family when I was about almost five.
[00:02:37] And I do think actually the Jamaican heritage is connected to how I got here. And so the reason why is that when my parents moved to the us, like moved to New York in particular, my dad was a professor. My mom worked in accounting and banking and they grew up in a majority black country. And so for them, the racism that they encountered in the US was really jarring.
[00:03:00] You know, they really, like in Jamaica, they would talk a lot about how you just took for granted that. You know someone that looked like you was the teacher, the professor, the owner of the bank, the president of the organization. Like you could be anything, right? Yes. And coming here and for them to be in professional jobs, but constantly assumed not to be just because of the color of their skin.
[00:03:22] And my dad is a professor talking about walking through the West Village where he was teaching at NYU and having the white students that were just in his classroom look right through him as if he was invisible. Sort of like, you know, race colored glasses that oftentimes it feels like people have or they don't even see us.
[00:03:38] Mm. Um, the thing that gave us so much solace and joy was actually watching shows like The Cosby Show. Yes. And later A Different World and things like that. And I think that it's really important to remember that. The images that we see, we know that they have impact on us. Um, but I think we don't often think about how deep that impact can really be.
[00:03:59]. And so for my parents who were like, what is going on in this country? Why are we constantly either invisibleized or underestimated, seeing this black family celebrate love and connection and education and excellence and professionalism. That resonated with them. Yeah. And I remember wondering why we only had one time a week, maybe two times a week, when we could gather around the TV and see that.
[00:04:25] Otherwise it was like, I'm seeing people that look like us on cops. I'm seeing people that look like us on the nightly news, and I had no idea about things like. Studio executive or even network or producer, like obviously you see the performers, um, and when you're young, you don't even know that they are performers.
[00:04:41] You're like, oh, it's just a cool family. Yeah.But I was like, oh, I wish I could see more of those. And so as I got older, I became more and more fascinated with the industry of entertainment and the way that, like, I was inspired by the images I saw on screen. I was inspired by the voices I heard on the radio.
[00:04:57] I also grew up as a singer so really thought, you know that. Yeah, I really loved singing growing up
Fanshen Cox [00:05:02] We need a jingle for Sista Brunch, so I'm just saying.
From Music Industry to Film & TV Pivot
Kamala Avila-Salmon [00:05:06] You know. Long retired though. I'm really kind of excited in 2026 about finding places to sing because I think that, yes, well we can talk about this later, but hobbies is something that gets neglected in adulthood and I actually really feel like hobbies are really important.
[00:05:22] So I'm thinking a lot about maybe bringing some hobbies back. I tend to be a worker bee. Those images inspired the career journey. So as I learned more about what happens behind the scenes in entertainment, I became more and more interested in not being someone necessarily on screen or on stage, but being someone who could say yes to getting people on screen or on stage and learning more about what it means to have something green lit.
[00:05:48] What is a studio chairman? What does that whole process look like? And when I started, I started in the music business wanting to run a record label. Okay. And then when I transitioned after business school to TV and [00:06:00] film, I was like, I wanna run a studio. 'cause I wanna be able to say yes so that more of our stories can be seen and told.
Fanshen Cox [00:06:06] Where did you go to business school?
Kamala Avila-Salmon [00:06:08]So I went to Harvard Business School actually.
Fanshen Cox [00:06:09] Okay. Mm-hmm. All right. And then the Cambridge Mass. Another thing we have in common. I don't know if you know I grew up there.
Kamala Avila-Salmon [00:06:15]No, no, no, no. I went to Harvard undergrad and business school. Okay. Two very different experiences. Um, I worked in the music business in between, but I went to business school, um, because I was working in the music industry at a time when the industry was being completely disrupted by digital, and I felt like my colleagues were just sort of like underwater. Everybody was so focused on like, how can we get consumers to go back to doing the thing that we want them doing, buying full length albums mm-hmm.
[00:06:41] And all, and I was like, mm-hmm. And I just intuitively knew like that's not the way to save the business. You cannot force consumers to do what you prefer them to do. You have to figure out how to monetize what they are doing. And so I wanted to go to business school to really better understand how in the long life of business overall, what are the companies that thrive amidst dis disruption?
[00:07:01] How do you find opportunity in crisis? My favorite saying now is. You know, never waste a good crisis. There's always something to be gained that probably was not possible to be gained if there wasn't a crisis moment.
Fanshen Cox [00:07:16] Oh my goodness. Okay. Alright, so you're seeing that in music. Yep. What was the, and, and then you talked about your early, you know, kind of early childhood being limited, right? That you could twice a week maybe if you got lucky. So what was the transition into TV and film?
Kamala Avila-Salmon [00:07:31]TV and film. So it really was kind of like when I was in business school, I tapped back into that inner child, that inner voice. I've always been someone who I'm really driven by passion and curiosity.
[00:07:42] I would say those are kind of the two hallmarks of my career. And so I wanted to always work in something that I was passionate about and I knew I was passionate about entertainment. And then I wanted to work in something like that. I was curious about it. I was like, I've never worked in TV and film, but I know how meaningful those images are.
[00:07:58] I wanna dive into that. And so after business school, I kind of, you know, turned down a lot of the typical post MBA types of opportunities and moved out to LA without much of a network, but certainly had like talked to people and. Everyone said, you just have to move out here and figure it out. And I kind of basically restarted my career after business school. And like was an assistant again.
Fanshen Cox [00:08:18] Okay. So that's what you had Worked my way up again. Started your way fresh. Fresh. How did you get that first assistant job? Was it relationships you had?
Breaking In: Networking & Cold Outreach Strategy
Kamala Avila-Salmon [00:08:28]Yeah, so I would say almost every. Role that I've gotten, especially at the beginning of my journeys, both in music and in TV and film, were through relationships.
[00:08:37] And I think sometimes that can sound intimidating to people, but it wasn't a case of like my uncle or my mom or something. Like I didn't have those types of connections. Right. But I had connections that I would consider accessible to most people if you're willing to knock and ask. So I've always been someone who is unafraid to get a no no is just another word.
[00:08:58] Right. It le it it is. It leaves you unchanged.
Fanshen Cox [00:09:06] Yep. But a yes has the potential to really open a door. It's so funny. I'll just, I'll just add please right here, that every season as we go to invite guests, there's this sense of imposter syndrome of like she won't answer my email about our little tiny podcast.
[00:09:19] You are an example of, I was like, did, should I, should I just ask her?
Kamala Avila-Salmon [00:09:26] And oh my God. That's insane for me to think about. 'cause it's such an honor to be,
Fanshen Cox [00:09:29] Oh my gosh, it really is. And it, but it, it's, it two years.
Kamala Avila-Salmon [00:09:31] Sometimes you get in your own way. Sometimes you tell yourself No, you get your own way.
Fanshen Cox [00:09:34] You have to just go ahead and make the ask, because then you never know. And then, you know what? You gotta ask again. Yes. 'cause a lot of times you don't get a response. And then you gotta keep going. Right?. So I love that. Okay. So the idea is really, yeah.
Kamala Avila-Salmon [00:09:49] I do think that that holds, like, I'm glad that you call that out because I do think that that holds us back a lot.
[00:09:53] Yeah. You know that sometimes your pride gets in the way. Yeah. Even when I'm mentoring young people. Yeah. Telling them to be unafraid of a cold outreach. Yes. Right. And ideally try to find a warm lead where you can. But if you have to reach out cold, you have to reach out. Cold people reach out to me sometimes via LinkedIn.
[00:10:11] Via email. I don't get to respond to every single message, but I respond to more than you think.
Fanshen Cox [00:10:18] Absolutely. Right. And then we're us on the other end of people who reach out to us too. When you're in that position. There have been so many times when someone reached out and I was like, oh my gosh, I'm so glad that I know who you are and I know what you're doing.
Kamala Avila-Salmon [00:10:30] Absolutely. 'cause people responded to my cold outreaches. Exactly. So I have to, you know, pay that forward. So you have to, the way I got the first job in the music industry was actually through that. Yeah. I, um, I, as I said, I went to Harvard undergrad. Um, I graduated having a few connections. I'd done a couple internships, but like nothing big.
[00:10:49] And, um, but I remembered that Clive Davis had gone to Harvard Law. I didn't know this man, but I was like, we have a school in common. I looked him up on the alumni directory. I sent him a letter cold and a few weeks later I got a call from, not from him directly, but from the HR department at the label that he was running, saying.
[00:11:07] Mr. Davis got your letter and we'd like to interview you for an assistant position. I never would've gotten that otherwise. Yes. Um, and then similarly, when I came out to LA I remember I asked everyone that I knew in my life. I was like, if you know anyone working in LA doing anything connected to media, please can you connect me?
[00:11:26] And I sent them, I had a little script like, could I please get 15 minutes of your time? I'm inspired by your career. Yes, I'd love to pick your brain about X, Y, and Z. And ideally the more specific you can be. Like, I'd love to ask you questions about the, these specific moments maybe in your career or something like that, versus sometimes receiving a note that's like, I wanna pick your brain about your entire career.
[00:11:46] Yeah. You can sort of feel like that's online. Yeah. Right, right. Absolutely. What is it that you wanna ask specifically? Right. Yeah. Yeah. But that's how I got the first. Opportunity through like friend of a friend. And my first six to maybe even nine months in LA, I went out on either a networking lunch or a dinner probably four times a week at least.
[00:12:06] Wow. Wow. And I would meet with anybody that I can. Yeah. An assistant, an intern at who, who knows. Right. And now so many of those people are, you know, still in the industry and doing quite well for themselves. And were friends studios and those are, yeah. And we were friends way back when. The friends who created then.
Building Kas Kas Productions & Studio Influence
Fanshen Cox [00:12:20] I love it. I love it. So, okay. And, and so they, then you end up at Lionsgate, right? Yes. And obviously you are working hard, you are showing up on time. You know, you're getting all of those things done that are necessary to Yes. Maintain relationships. Build relationships, yes. And, and do the work and learn.
[00:12:39] Um, but now you are running your own production company. Kas Kas Productions. Tell us a little bit about that.
Kamala Avila-Salmon [00:12:53] Yeah, so Kas Kas actually is a Jamaican saying, which I don't know if you already knew that part.
Fanshen Cox [00:12:20] Yes, yes, yes.
Kamala Avila-Salmon [00:12:54] So it's also my KS are my initials. So, I was thinking about KS Productions. KS like content something. Yes. But nothing seemed quite right and the name that I really wanted was good trouble because I've been obsessed with that phrase. Yes. You know, RIP, John Lewis. But the idea that we should constantly be making and finding good trouble.
[00:13:18] That is me in a nutshell, that is me in nutshell. Right. I am a good troublemaker. I ask the hard questions. I get into the tough roles. I get into the meetings that are, you know, sort of closed door and you get in and you ask the hard questions. That's like, actually when I was at Facebook, which is where I was before Lionsgate, um, I had created the marketing inclusion team there and I'd started an internal podcast called Good Trouble.
[00:13:45] So I'd always wanted that name. Yes. But of course, good trouble. Very taken. Yep. Mm-hmm. Understandably. Mm-hmm. And so I was looking for something like that and my dad was like. Well, you know, Kas Kas in Jamaica is a way of saying controversy. Disagreements. Like arguments. And I was like, so you're saying good trouble.
[00:14:03] And the fact that it was also my initials, it felt very kismet. So thus Kas Kas Productions was born. And again, it really came from like, um, sort of a conglomeration of experiences and continuing to be driven by passion and curiosity. A lot of people get to LA saying they wanna be a producer. When I got to LA I didn't even really know what that was. Mm-hmm. Like obviously everyone has heard the term producer.
Fanshen Cox [00:14:25] Some people still don't know.
Kamala Avila-Salmon [00:14:33] Right. Or even some people that are called producers on productions. Right. Because I mean, the truth is that it can mean many different things, right? It can mean you can be a creative producer, a financial producer, and executive producer, all of those things.
[00:14:41] Right. But I knew I wanted to get closer and closer to where the decisions were getting made about whose stories were getting made. Yeah. And who was getting told like, it's not quite right for us, or this is a pass. And so, um, when I worked at Lionsgate, I was really intentional about making sure that the role was structured in a way that didn't feel like or operate as a figurehead.
[00:15:01] It was some, I wanted this position to be really integrated into the key processes of the studio, and so central to creative development, central to marketing, part of the Green Light committee, all of those things, right? Because it's not just about like, oh, George Floyd was murdered, so therefore we need to have a black person in the room so that we look and feel better.
[00:15:21] I was really, um, very explicit with, um, my, the, the people. I became my bosses, if that's what this is, like, I'm not gonna be good at it because I'm gonna ask questions and I'm gonna wanna be in the meetings. They're like, no, no, that's what we want. And so through that I got really embedded in the development process in particular.
[00:15:39] And start, I read every draft. I sat in a lot of filmmaker meetings. I gave notes. I helped to inform the studio's notes, part of Greenlight. And you know, eventually through building relationships, people started, you know, writers, directors, other agents and producers were sending things to me. Do you think this would be right for Lionsgate?
[00:15:58] I was advocating for things [00:16:00] when Lionsgate did have, you know, projects on the slate. Um, whether they were from underrepresented directors or not. Honestly, I built relationships because I wanted to make sure that like. You know, diversifying the film slate both in front of the camera and, and behind the camera is not something that can fall solely on the shoulders of female directors or BIPOC directors.
[00:16:19] Like, and, and white male s don don't have to do anything. Right, right. No. I was like, no, they need to do something too. Yes, yes. And so, but I built relationships of course, with our female directors, our bipoc directors, and. And really advocated for them. Really made sure that they understood even sort of like the inner workings of the studio side baring after the meeting being like, what they said was this, but like what was unsaid was this, and I wanna make sure that you know that before you come to the next meeting
Fanshen Cox [00:16:45] The translation. Yes, much needed.
Kamala Avila-Salmon [00:16:46] Right. Exactly. Big on demystifying. You've come to some of our like, you know, creative, um, creative salons and our storyteller Summit. Works. I'm about bringing the inside information out because I would sit in those meetings. And wonder after like, well, why didn't you say that to the filmmaker while they were here?
[00:17:04] So maybe they could have worked on that and being like, I need to be sort of like a double agent, like bringing that information back to the community. Yes. And so through that, the chairman, Adam Fogle sent his credit, was like, I see the stories that you're advocating for. You know what it takes to get something green lit.
[00:17:20] I think you'd be a great producer. And that imposter syndrome. I was like, me, I'm not a producer. He's like, well, I mean, you advocate for creative voices. You care about stories, you understand the structure of development. You have good relationships. Like I think things, people bring things to you that, that they wouldn't bring to us otherwise.
[00:17:38] Everything, yes. That it's, it's giving producer. And I was like, oh, let me see what this is about. And so that's really how Kas Kas was born. I'm really grateful to. Have gotten that opportunity, um, from Adam and from the studio to, you know, be a producer with a deal in these like. Crazy, turbulent times.
Fanshen Cox [00:17:56] Yes. Much well, well deserved. Thank you. And I'll just, I just want to pinpoint how important it is when, you know, how you talked about and what you developed at Lionsgate, which is a model truly, which is that diversity A lot of times diversity, inclusion, people wait till the marketing phase. And then we know that's, that's the super set. You gotta start from day one. Seedling the develop seed. Seed of the idea, seed idea in the development stage absolutely. Is when you need to start thinking about it. Absolutely. And then the story, then it, it's already embedded, right? It's already part of it. And, and you really are a model for that.
[00:18:34] And, and, and I am able use it in my work at the film commission. I just wanna let you know to say. We have examples of this. So, um, so we're so excited about supporting you and watching you grow. Yeah. And all the projects that come outta Kas Kas. So we'll be keeping an eye on that.
Join Us on Patreon
Fanshen Cox [00:18:58] Hey, it's Fanshen and you are listening to Sista Brunch on this quick break. Why don't you head over to Patreon and follow us there. Join our community. That's patreon.com/sistabrunch, S-I-S-T-A Brunch.
Kamala Avila-Salmon [00:19:08] Hi, I'm Kamala Avila Salmon and you're listening to Sista Brunch Podcast.
Let’s Talk Finance
Fanshen Cox [00:19:12] We're gonna transition and, and we can focus on Kas Kas or your work at Lionsgate or, or even prior and talk about financials. Because speaking of that imposter syndrome, this is a place where. They're so frequently we're just frozen because we have no idea.
Kamala Avila-Salmon [00:19:30] Because we feel uncomfortable talking about money and don't wanna sound stupid or, yeah.
Fanshen Cox [00:19:38] Yeah. Absolutely. So whatever you're comfortable sharing, either like kind of round numbers or a ballpark around your studio deal or, or what it costs to make a production.Whatever you're comfortable around financials.
Kamala Avila-Salmon [00:19:48] Sure. So, um, I think probably what's most helpful. Is just kind of sharing like some of what I've seen from the studio side in terms of like understanding kind of like what salary or compensation ranges even look like. So, um, I remember when I was first working on, there was a project that we're working on, um.
[00:20:05] That I'm executive producing now that I championed when I was at Lionsgate. Yes. Which will be coming out, um, this year. Yes. I'll be able to talk about the release date soon, but this year. Um, but it gave me a chance to really look more at like budgets. And so I would say, um, if you are producing something, um, a gonna expect or hope that like, you know, the majority of the money for that production is going on screen.
[00:20:30] Yep. And so they're looking at, you know, you have your below the line costs and you have your above the line costs, and producers fall into that above the line cost, like producer, director, actors, et cetera. So, uh, the rough ballparks that I've seen, like the producer doesn't wanna be taking up more than like two to 3%, maybe 5% of the budget at max.
[00:20:51] Mm-hmm. And so when, when movies would come in and we would be sort of trying to get the movie to a budget that the studio would approve. Producers would be like one of the first like line items attacked, like the producer's capturing too much now, of course. Right? Right. When you get to be that mega producer, then all of a sudden they're more than willing to pay you 5%, 7%.
[00:21:12] But like that's not gonna happen at the beginning. Right? And so if you are looking to produce and you're thinking about, oh, I think I'll be working on. Films in the one to 5 million range, you know, that's where you're gonna expect more of the two to 3%, but as the budget increases.
[00:21:30] You might be able to capture a little bit more than that. Yeah. Um, and then from a sort of studio executive perspective, like it's, it varies widely by studio, but there are bands and so. You know, you'll have kind of your typical sort of steps on the ladder. Your manager level, director level. Maybe there's an executive director snuck in there before VP then SVP, um, and EVP.
[00:21:55] Right. And so, um, if you're working in creative development. Um, those tend to be kind of akin to sort of like when I was working in tech, the engineering and the product like team would make more than the marketing team. And that's similar in Hollywood where your development executives are gonna make more.
[00:22:14] Then your marketing executives or distribution executives at the same level. But like I think where most people start getting above a hundred or 150,000, probably gonna be getting close to like director level. And it could be a little bit higher depending on like what, how many years of experience you're bringing to that.
[00:22:33] Um, and then at the VP level, like things start to get a little bit. The range really spreads, which oftentimes is not good for us as women and and people of color.
Fanshen Cox [00:22:47] So let's talk about, because you said kind of once you hit that director level, then you start to get into the six figures. So what's, take us through starting at assistance.
Kamala Avila-Salmon [00:22:53] So I think this question about levels is actually really, um, helpful because it can be very obtuse when you're getting in and you don't know like what to advocate for what level should I be. Am I at the right level? What are the levels? So while it varies a little bit, and I'll talk about where the variation is, sort of standard is assistant then, um, and so assistant, you mostly will have like executive admin type of responsibilities, right?
[00:23:22] Right at the coordinator level, theoretically you have certain projects that you are doing on your own, on behalf of your boss. Um, you're getting a little bit more responsibility, but you still are holding onto the, those executive admin assistant responsibilities after coordinator manager usually. Okay.
[00:23:38] And so that might be for the, a lot of people when you get off of someone's desk, you're no longer doing like the executive admin work, but you're not yet an executive on your own. So you might be sort of a junior exec to someone that's at a more senior level. Okay. After manager, you'll probably get to director.
[00:23:56] To director. There's sometimes now there's an executive director in [00:24:00] between director and VP. Um, and then at the VP level, there's sometimes now an executive vp, um, before you get to or something that they slide in before SVP. Okay. Um, which is senior vice president. Mm-hmm. And then executive vice president, and then, you know, president or head of et cetera.
[00:24:18] Okay. Now that the tech companies have come in, um, they brought, you know, their traditional, their traditional leveling to, um, sort of that sort of merging with Hollywood leveling. Okay. And so typically tech companies tend to be flatter and have less levels. Okay. Um, and actually push more decision making down.
[00:24:36] Not all of that has translated to the Hollywood side, but the leveling. Has sort of come over. Okay. And so if you, for instance, this confuses a lot of people. If someone at Netflix is a director, they are pretty much an SVP or maybe even an EVP level. Okay. At a traditional studio.
[00:24:54] Because a tech companies directors are sometimes business line managers like.
[00:25:00] Very senior, lot of responsibility have a team under them versus on the traditional studio side, a director is still, as I said, sort of like more of almost a junior exec in some places. Um, at a tech company, a manager.
[00:25:13] Might be like more of like what we would consider on the, um, traditional side. A director, maybe even an executive director, and they may be compensated similarly. Okay. Okay. Right. So you just kind of have to do some translation and so very helpful. What I would say is when you're going up for a job or you're looking at a role, pay less attention to the title and more to kind of what are the requisites for the job in terms of number of years, right.
[00:25:37] Will I be a people manager or not? Do I have a team? What's the compensation band? Okay. Because that's probably gonna tell you more than just sort of like what the name of the level is. Okay. Because a manager might be a fantastic job to get at Netflix, whereas maybe on a traditional studio you're like, that might be too junior for me.
Let’s Talk Tech
Fanshen Cox [00:25:54] So helpful. Yeah. I, I have it all in one place for once. This is so helpful. Yes. Uh, okay. And so let's go to our, let's talk tech segment. So a piece of technology or verbiage, something that you use in your job that if someone outside of your job heard it, they would have no idea what it is.
Kamala Avila-Salmon [00:26:13] Yes. So I love this question and I, two terms came to mind immediately. Um, but then I also will mention a tool just because I think it's helpful. Love it. So the two terms, um, that come up the most in my work are packaging and getting things set up.
[00:26:31] When, when I say that to like my parents, they're like, what? What does that even mean? Yes, yes. Um, and, and to friends that work outside the industry, like no idea. Packaging, first of all, is not physical packaging, so people think, oh, you're talking about like the marketing, the branding, right? No, not at all.
[00:26:46] Right, right. The package is basically the elements that in connection with the material that you're developing will make it attractive to a buyer. Right. And so this is, um, who is directing That is a part of the package. Yeah. Who's writing it? That's part of the package. Um, who's acting in it? That's part of the package.
[00:27:08] And so gone are the days when studios were doing actual packaging much more often. They are expecting you to come to them with not only the great idea, but that idea already like represented as a well-written script. Um, and packaged with a director that's gonna direct it, that is of value to them.
[00:27:27] Especially in the genre that you're saying that this project is, and or potentially even like what they call one or two piece of cast, which sounds so commoditizing 'cause they're human beings. But main one or two actors mm-hmm. Of value mm-hmm. That are gonna be in this thing. Yeah. So now as a producer, I would love to be moving much more quickly and able to like say, found a great script.
[00:27:50] Let me take it to Lionsgate. Right. But taking naked, what we call naked scripts to Lionsgate, to a studio. More tech, yes. Naked scripts. Okay. Is sort of an exercise in a wait and see answer where they're like, let me know how it develops. I've been there so many times back in the day. It's like, no, you let me know how.
[00:28:07] Develop it. Yes. Right? But no, they want you to come with all those elements, right? Those. And so what takes a long time? I remember watching award shows when people would say, I've been working on this idea for five years, for six years, and I would be like. How? Right. Why? Why are you so slow? Right, right, right.
[00:28:27] Like move faster and now you understand that it's like, yeah. A lot of it might be packaging. Yep. Right? Because when you're trying to find the right director for something, you have to like, it's not only using your relationships, but like you are waiting for directors to read, to be available. Right. They might have. They are things lined up.
Fanshen Cox [00:28:44] Exactly and if you get the director, maybe that actor's not ready and available.
Kamala Avila-Salmon [00:28:50] Correct. All of those things. So many factors, all those pieces. So that's the packaging. Okay. And then getting things set up. And so that basically means getting a project situated, um, and on track for ideally a future green light with a specific studio or a network or a streamer.
[00:29:05] Right? And so basically, um, when I moved from working at Lionsgate as an executive and moved to become a producer, I moved from the buyer side to the seller side. So now as a producer, I am a seller, right?
Fanshen Cox [00:29:18] Buyers and sellers is another one.
Kamala Avila-Salmon [00:29:23] Like every market there, buyers and sellers. Really, there's three elements.
[00:29:24] Every market, there's makers, sellers, and buyers. Right. Sometimes the makers and the buyers are the same. I'm sorry, the makers and the sellers are the same. Sometimes they're different. And a lot of times in our industry, they're different. As a producer, I am, I am not a, I don't write.
[00:29:40] I don't direct, right? I don't act right. So sometimes I joke, I'm the untalented producer. I don't have the trade of the things that the makers have, but I have a really, you know, keen sense on you have the trade to bring them all together. How to bring those pieces together strategically understand what a studio might be looking for, what are the notes that are gonna help you get this thing set up?
[00:30:00] Right. And then I'm taking it to the buyers. Whether that is studios or streamers on the film side or on the feature side, or whether that is studios or networks on the TV side. Right. And then when you're on the TV side, which I spent most of my time thus far on the film side, but now I'm developing things on the TV side 'cause I'm passionate about tv.
[00:30:20] Yes. I'm learning a ton about the TV side where it's like there's a studio side
versus TV were planted for versus early on. Very much so kind of coming back home. Okay. Alright.
Fanshen Cox [00:30:33] And one tool, we'll, we'll do that one really quickly. What's the tool?
Kamala Avila-Salmon [00:30:34] So the tool I would say, so it's the tool that Tia and I developed together at Lionsgate called Story Spark. Which is basically the tool that we use to evaluate every script that would come into the studio. So you can go to get story spark.com and you can use it. It's available for free. One of the things that we were proudest of was like trying to make it less obtuse and less vague. What we mean when we say inclusive commercial. Ideas, right?
[00:31:00] An inclusive ma piece of, um, story or script or whatever it is. Not just, oh, there's a black person in it. There's like a woman directing it. There's a lot more to it than that. And you wanna think about authenticity, tropes and stereotypes, representation, you know, nuance, all of those things. So that allows you to look at any piece of. Um, ip, a book, uh, a script, and think about all those different levels of inclusion.
Signature Sista Brunch Question
Fanshen Cox [00:31:27] Love it. Love it. Okay. Amazing tool. Alright, our signature Sista Brunch questions. So you and your younger self are sitting down to a Sista Brunch. What are you both eating? And what are you both drinking? And what do you tell her?
Kamala Avila-Salmon [00:31:41] Okay, so this is a question I've never gotten before, seen anywhere else, and this is really cool. So I think I will say myself right now, having brunch with, um, the 21 or 22-year-old version of me that had just gotten out of Harvard undergrad and was like starting to work in the music business. So I would say she would be having probably a bacon, egg and cheese sandwich.
[00:32:07] Maybe with like hash browns or potatoes and like enjoying a mimosa. And I would say myself now is trying to eat a little healthier because when you are. Not 22. It's a little harder to process a daily bacon, egg, and cheese as much as I would love to. Yes. So I, depending on how good I'm being, I might have, if it's a more indulgent day, I might have like a smoked salmon eggs benedict.
[00:32:32] It's a less indulgent day. I might have an egg white omelet, or maybe even a yogurt and granola. But I probably still would have a mimosa. Yes. Maybe even a Hugo Spritz if I'm feeling festive. Oh, not an Aperol Spritz person, but Hugo Spritz is one I've learned of, I don't know, Hugo Spritz. So basically, if you like the look of an Aperol spritz, they're cute.
[00:32:53] They're cute. They're, but I, I do not get too bitter for me. I don't love the aftertaste of that. Okay. So Hugo Spritz is what you want because instead of the Aperol, it is, um, elder flower. Which I love.
Fanshen Cox [00:33:04] Oh, I'm on it. Mm-hmm. Oh, we had another guest talk about elder flower. This so tasty. Okay. Yes. Okay. Alright.
Kamala Avila-Salmon [00:33:09] And I would say to her like, keep going and keep saying yes. Saying yes to I to opportunities and ideas that have interested me and that I've been passionate and curious about has never led me wrong. And I wouldn't be here otherwise.
Fanshen Cox[00:33:30] Kamala, it is so wonderful to have you sitting on the chair with us here at Sista Brunch, thank you for gracing us and teaching us and inspiring us today. Thank you so much.
Kamala Avila-Salmon [00:33:39] Thank you for doing this for now. Seven seasons. I think there's so much that we learn from one another when we are able to share our stories. And so thank you for creating a space where black women can do that with one another, and for having such beautiful energy, always.
Closing & Partnerships
Fanshen Cox [00:33:58] Sista Brunches, brought to you by TruJuLo Productions. Our show creators are Anya Adams, Kristabell, and Sti and me Fanshen Cox. Our season seven producers are Tasha Rogers and Samantha K. Henderson. Our associate producers are Charlie T. Savage and Ashanti Groves. Sista Brunch’s recorded on the unseated territory of the Tonga and the Chumash people in Hollywood this time at UPodcaster Studios.
[00:34:28] Thank you so much for listening, and watching, and sharing, and subscribing and reviewing us on Apple and Spotify. We're so grateful. For all you do for our community, and we're grateful for you for being part of our community. Thank you so much and we'll talk to you next time.